Which house is dominant these days?

By Twn2dn, in 1. AGoT General Discussion

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Kennon said:

Twn2dn said:

Two other rules questions about Galbart...how does the timing work with To Be A Wolf? Do I have to tell my opponent which pile I'm searching before s/he names the card type I can't search for? Or do I just get to search either pile without having to say anything? Also, in cases where the search event specifies I shuffle my deck, would I shuffle my discard pile, my deck, both, or neither?

I'm pretty sure that you don't have to say anything at all to your opponent about which one you're searching at any point. You might for courtesy when you actually pick up your discard pile to look through it, much like you might mention that you're drawing a card for Golden Tooth Mines when you draw a card off your deck, but I don't see anything that would mean you'd have to announce it to your opponent before they chose what to name.

One question that did pop up in my head, is whether it's strictly and either/or sort of choice. If I have Galbart in play, do I search the discard pile or deck only (ie. I search the deck for another copy of a card, then realize all of them are in my discard pile, but I've already searched my deck so his "instead" text keeps me from also searching the discard pile.) or do I effectively get to search both discard pile and deck as if they were one entity?

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Jon would soak up a lot of power - and Ghost gives you stealth and the save to protect all that power. I've actually been using this old combo a bit lately in decks lacking in closing speed.

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Thanks, Stag. I'll see you tonight ;-)

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So we can agree that Stark Search maybe shouldn't be on the top tier list. If we can't even agree on what goes in there and it hasn't won a major tournament, then Stark has one less deck to be "dominant" with.

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clu said:

So we can agree that Stark Search maybe shouldn't be on the top tier list. If we can't even agree on what goes in there and it hasn't won a major tournament, then Stark has one less deck to be "dominant" with.

#1: Martell by a landslide (even if we split between summer and maesters, Martell takes the top 2 spots)

#2: Baratheon with 19% of the vote

#3: Greyjoy with 12%

#4: Targaryen with 11%

#5: Stark with 7%

#6: Lannister with 3%

It will be interesting to see if the upcoming Days of Ice & Fire, Stahleck, and Black Friday tournaments support these results. My guess is that Martell and Baratheon are boosted somewhat by their success at GenCon. The perceptions/voting will likely change significantly IF one of the houses ranked in the bottom three does well at any of these tournaments.

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Twn2dn said:

To be fair, there does seem to be quite a bit of consensus. Based on the 110 votes so far, the houses rank as follows...

#1: Martell by a landslide (even if we split between summer and maesters, Martell takes the top 2 spots)

#2: Baratheon with 19% of the vote

#3: Greyjoy with 12%

#4: Targaryen with 11%

#5: Stark with 7%

#6: Lannister with 3%

Wow, I'm shocked by Lannister in 6th. (What?! No Neutral House!!!!) I figured it would be #2. I wonder how much of this is influenced by current popularity. # of decks in tournament vs # of decks in top 8.

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clu said:

(What?! No Neutral House!!!!) I figured it would be #2.

I'll fine-tune this poll a bit and next time hopefully be able to include info about where the respondent is from (ie which meta or country they play in).

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The question was "Which house/build is the most powerful these days?", so you cannot make any deduction which house/build is second, third etc. Lanni at #6 does not mean they are the weakest build in voters opinion.

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Rogue30 said:

The question was "Which house/build is the most powerful these days?", so you cannot make any deduction which house/build is second, third etc. Lanni at #6 does not mean they are the weakest build in voters opinion.

whats the best Lannister build right now?

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imo, kneel. Just take a decklist from bruno's win in Cali to Jeremiah's 2nd in Iowa Regional. Both are control decks with kneel. The carrion bird trick doesn't work anymore but there is still plenty of gas in the tank.

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Twn2dn said:

I'll fine-tune this poll a bit and next time hopefully be able to include info about where the respondent is from (ie which meta or country they play in).

A more interesting question is to either provide a second choice or do another poll with Martell removed. Sometimes a second choice might be a little more revealing since your first choice might be chosen with more prejudice.

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jack merridew said:

Rogue30 said:

The question was "Which house/build is the most powerful these days?", so you cannot make any deduction which house/build is second, third etc. Lanni at #6 does not mean they are the weakest build in voters opinion.

whats the best Lannister build right now?

Are you suggesting something?

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Lanny Kneel is still really strong. In fact, it matches up pretty well against maesters too. I think a lot of people are just not playing it as much right now.

I do agree with the synopsis though. Lanny kneel is not the #1 deck right now, but that doesn't mean its the worst deck out there.

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The other relevant question is what matches up best against the top decks out there, should you want to tech directly against them? I believe this is what Casey referred to as the Tyrion archtype back in the day... whereas Bronn was playing the "top deck."

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Fieras said:

Lanny Kneel is still really strong. In fact, it matches up pretty well against maesters too. I think a lot of people are just not playing it as much right now.

I do agree with the synopsis though. Lanny kneel is not the #1 deck right now, but that doesn't mean its the worst deck out there.

Agreed. I think the biggest issue with Lannister kneel is just that more than any other deck or house Lannister has changed the least from since the LCG started. Kneel is still their best archetype and it's still really strong, and other than a card here and there it hasn't really changed since the LCG format started. Kings Landing was great for Lannister but only if you wanted to run shadows kneel, but even then the feel of the deck really hasn't changed a lot, so people are probably just a bit bored with Lannister right now.

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Freerider said:

Fieras said:

Lanny Kneel is still really strong. In fact, it matches up pretty well against maesters too. I think a lot of people are just not playing it as much right now.

I do agree with the synopsis though. Lanny kneel is not the #1 deck right now, but that doesn't mean its the worst deck out there.

Agreed. I think the biggest issue with Lannister kneel is just that more than any other deck or house Lannister has changed the least from since the LCG started. Kneel is still their best archetype and it's still really strong, and other than a card here and there it hasn't really changed since the LCG format started. Kings Landing was great for Lannister but only if you wanted to run shadows kneel, but even then the feel of the deck really hasn't changed a lot, so people are probably just a bit bored with Lannister right now.

That ^

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Freerider said:

Fieras said:

Lanny Kneel is still really strong. In fact, it matches up pretty well against maesters too. I think a lot of people are just not playing it as much right now.

I do agree with the synopsis though. Lanny kneel is not the #1 deck right now, but that doesn't mean its the worst deck out there.

Agreed. I think the biggest issue with Lannister kneel is just that more than any other deck or house Lannister has changed the least from since the LCG started. Kneel is still their best archetype and it's still really strong, and other than a card here and there it hasn't really changed since the LCG format started. Kings Landing was great for Lannister but only if you wanted to run shadows kneel, but even then the feel of the deck really hasn't changed a lot, so people are probably just a bit bored with Lannister right now.

That's why you'll hear Rings giving me so much crap about not having played Lannister in so long.

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clu said:

imo, kneel. Just take a decklist from bruno's win in Cali to Jeremiah's 2nd in Iowa Regional. Both are control decks with kneel. The carrion bird trick doesn't work anymore but there is still plenty of gas in the tank.

QFT. Clu has the rigth of this. I was actually typing p a nsotty post about not taking any poll seriously that ahs Lannister less than second, but deicded it wasn't worth it. But Clu's surprise is reflected here. Lannister is still dman near the top of the heap and better than even in just about every matchup but v Martell. they just aren't the popular flavor with control players at teh moemnt.

And the new Jaime just makes them better. He's like the old discard KoF Icywold rode to a title - but more efficient sicne he doesn't require Influence. What the hell?

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Of course, that old Knight of Flowers wasn't limited to "Once per phase" like Jaime (and since it's a Challenge Phase ability, this is effectively "Once per round"), plus KoF's discard was based on his STR versus the other character's strength, rather than Jaime's power vs other character's strength. Even with Infamy its slower and much more risky to power Jaime up. He's obviously in a similar vein as that old Knight of Flowers, but KoF was leagues ahead of him in strength.

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Kennon said:

Of course, that old Knight of Flowers wasn't limited to "Once per phase" like Jaime (and since it's a Challenge Phase ability, this is effectively "Once per round"), plus KoF's discard was based on his STR versus the other character's strength, rather than Jaime's power vs other character's strength. Even with Infamy its slower and much more risky to power Jaime up. He's obviously in a similar vein as that old Knight of Flowers, but KoF was leagues ahead of him in strength.

QFT X 1,000. He isn't that great, and if you can't control him in the time it takes for him to be remotely as good as Venomous Blade...well, your deck has issues lengua.gif

~None of this will stop me from making fun of Kennon for not playing Lanni in forever BTW...yet still getting to write the Lanni box intro. gui%C3%B1o.gif

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Yeah, yeah ~ typical Lannister disinformation. Jaime is still a great control card.

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Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the assessment of Jaime. 4 power on him is a lot for sure, but there are so many good utility characters with 1 or 2 strength. You should get good mileage out of 2 or 3.

I probably even wouldn't mind tossing 4 power on him if I drew him in setup or turn 1 to try and force an early valar. A free kneel to discard nearly any target character is just dumb.

Not to mention, any sort of repeatable kneel or discard in the character base is nice, especially when it targets nearly anyone, and can go off before challenges are declared.

Otherwise for Lannister, Slander and lies is amazing. I know attachments are weak right now, but if you for whatever reason can't deal with it, what do you do? You can pair it up with Head of a Dwarf to make it impossible for your opponent to win (short of their reset), or stick it on renown characters and have an any phase pay gold action like Sweet Cersei or Bronn to bleed power off of them as they earn it.

Clansman are on their way. High claim is always scary. One 3 claim power challenge is enough to turn a game, and that is pretty easy for clansmen to do. They already have an amazing setup and Lannister gold, all they need is a few good power cards and they'll be competitive. I'd really be surprised if Ransack wasn't showing up in the new box at least.

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Lannister kneel in Melee is a bit of crap because it helps every player but the one being knelt. A universal kneel against each opponent at the same time would make Lannister kneel a bit more formidable. Perhaps a location that will allow this.

"Any triggered effect that will kneel an opponents character will also affect each other opponent." Perhaps too strong, or maybe make it one additional opponent and not all other opponents.

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Bomb said:

Lannister kneel in Melee is a bit of crap because it helps every player but the one being knelt. A universal kneel against each opponent at the same time would make Lannister kneel a bit more formidable. Perhaps a location that will allow this.

"Any triggered effect that will kneel an opponents character will also affect each other opponent." Perhaps too strong, or maybe make it one additional opponent and not all other opponents.

Maybe an event where you choose and kneel a character each player controls, including yourself.

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I can't believe people haven't said Baratheon yet. That house is soooooo dominant! I mean look at Compelled by the King! They become dominant whenever they want. Which leads me to believe that any tournament not won by Baratheon is solely due to the fact that Baratheon didn't want to win that tournament. This directly correlates to the number of tournaments where the prize is a weekend of whoring and boozing.