Hastur's new ability is that when you're devoured or insane in Arkham , the terror level increases by 1.

During final combat, are you considered to be in Arkham? I don't see why you wouldn't. Hastur is arriving to Arkham and you're meeting to stop him. You may not be definitively in a street or location , but you should still be in town . What's your take on this?

Also, during final combat, if you're driven insane, you're devoured. Does this count twice towards his terror trigger?

This became particularly important during tonight's game because a sufficiently high terror level would have resulted in doom tokens being added to Hastur—not to mention that terror-based Epic Battle card.

Ahh, a new question to debate. I vote for you're being in town, but I'll admit that's just because it will boost Hastur's difficulty in combat. I'm sure there are others that will feel that you some else in time and space (how else can all the investigators manage to coordinate their efforts when just a moment before they were in several different locations).

When the AO awakens all investigators are treated as being in the same space, regardless of board location. To me this implies that what was previously confined to Arkham is now global. So Id be inclined to say yes, final battle is 'in Arkham' with Arkham being the epicentre of a global catastrophe.

Pick worst-case-scenario for investigators as you always do, what's the problem?

I dunno, it's pretty clear to me that the final battle is its own abstraction, even if some of the new cards make it clear that you're fighting in Arkham (the collapse of the South Church for example). I can't think of another Elder God whose power remains active during the final battle, so to me it suggests it's just the wording of this new card at fault. Personally I would simply ignore that effect when it's final battle time and just focus on the attacks and sinister plots.

Treguard said:

This was my first thought, that by then they are no longer Stirring in their Slumber, but the typical way of playing Cthulhu presupposes that this is false, and the possibility of Eihort ever devouring anyone in final combat arguably depend s on it. Weird.

Then again, does it matter if the terror level increases during Final Battle? After all, the new Hastur's modifier is fixed to -5 so it isn't modified by terror level increases.

Treguard: There's Shub-Niggurath (with her Sinister Plot that has you fight Dark Young), Glaaki, Eihort, Quachil Uttaus, and, of course, Cthulhu. So I'd say there's definitely precedent for it. Personally, I'm divided. I do think that investigators should be treated as being in the same location during final combat (based largely on a number of Relationships which have an effect on another investigator in your location and specify that they cannot be used during final combat), but the question is whether that should be in Arkham. Thematically, yes. Mechanically...I'm not sure. This is really the only instance in which being in Arkham or not would have an effect, since Environments are discarded.

mi-go hunter: Remember, if the Terror level is at 10 and it would increase, you add a Doom token instead.

Walk said:

Ah, I see. Hadn't thought of that...

In that case I agree that Hastur does increase the terror level even in Final Combat. If all investigators are treated to be in the same location for the purposes of trading and such, they should all be in Arkham. So if an investigator goes insane, the terror level should increase.

First let me emphasize that, according to the designer, slumber abilities are active all game long , including final combat.

Mi-Go Hunter: well the terror increases don't actually make new Hastur more difficult until they reach 10 and begin adding doom tokens instead. Actually there is also a MH epic battle card that adds doom tokens equal to the terror level, so I guess that counts if you own it.

MyNeighbourTrololo said:

You're under the impression that I do that, but I don't. I pick what's most thematically sound, or simplest, or what breaks the game the least. Most of the time this results in the more harmful choice, especially when it comes to situations that are game-breaking.

For example: I'm not okay with an insane investigator increasing the terror level twice because he's also devoured. That seems excessive.

Environments and Rumors may be discarded because they're overwhelmed by the awakening AO's presence. This may not be meaningful for "solar eclipse" but it's fine with a lot of the others. Maybe the solar eclipse has ended.

Ultimately, I'm playing that this ability takes effect, but I was interested if there were any convincing arguments why it shouldn't.

Walk said:

Apologies, to clarify I should have said remain active for triggering purposes. But you are right concerning Eihort and Glaaki (if using the EB cards). The others slumbering powers, being passive abilities for the entirety of the game, I had taken as read as not bestowing any further effect on the final battle. Naturally you wouldn't suddenly ignore these effects when it comes to fighting the AO.

Eihort would be the strongest argument in favour of this additional effect for Hastur, especially since raising the terror track further at this point in the game still poses some relevance, what with adding doom tokens.

*double post*