This post is for all of those questions which can be either answered by other forum members, or by quoting an FAQ or any other offical answers.

If there truely are unanswered questions (not mentioned anywhere) maybe they can be sent to FFG sometime.

If you have suggestions for rules changes, please add them as short comments. Please don't use this thread to discuss all possible nuances of house rulings, just state your own house rules, if you got them for stated questions. Thx.

Here's my 50 cents worth:

RtL

Entering new dungeon levels by heroes

1) If all four heroes leave dungeon level 1 via the portal and/or town portal and enter dungeon level 2, what happens to

1.1) the dungeon level 1: Is it discarded, or does it remain as a viable play area (for example for monster spawns?

1.1.1) If it remains, can the heroes return to it via glyphs as long as they have not either finished or fled the dungeon?

1.2) If is is discarded, what happens to any remaining monsters.

2.) Are they considered killed by the heroes (thus entitling them to any master monster kill rewards)?

2.2) If the monsters are not considered killed, are they either

2.2.1) just removed from play?

2..2.2) still remaining in play for considerations like

2.2.2.1) how many monsters are available for spawn depending on number of monster figures present in the game?

2.2.2.2) Trickster (which reduces trap cost per trickster rank)?

3) How is the distance for 'Spiritwalker' determined? Is it counted in map squares, as if the hero had somehow traversed the intervening spaces (thus considering such impassible obstacles as closed doors)? Or is it a 'raw' radius determined by laying on the hero figure with the spiritwalker skill a radius of 10 spaces (or the reduced number of spaces for the RtL campaign - which I currently don't know) totally ignoring any intervening obstacles and even non-existent map squares (such as in adjacent rooms which are not directly connected by map squares but which would be within the spiritwalkers 'action' radius)?

4) Can a figure with a blast attack choose to ignore its usage?

Gateways:

5) Can a figure on one side of a gateway use a melee attack to attack a monster on the other side of gateway?

6 Can a monster occupying more than one space just use a single movement point to pass through a gateway (thus leaving a part of it behind), attack, and then retreat with another movement point? Or does it have to move through a gateway completely to attack?

6.1. Could a four-space monster be used to thus stand inside a gateway, and with 'rage' attack heroes on both sides of the gateway?

6.2. Does 'aura' extend across a gateway, ie through the gateway to affect heroes on the other end of the gateway moving into these squares?

7) Is a leap attack originating from one side of a gateway but continuing thorugh it considered an attack, or is it considered movement, as the blood apes have to spend movement points (double their remaining movement points) to attack?

8.1) If it is an attack, is the attack legal ie. possible as it uses movement points to determine its attack 'range'?

8.1.1 If it is legal, can the ape start its attack even before entering the gateway and 'leaping' through the gateway?

8.2) OR does it actually have to have stepped through the gateway before it starts its attack?

8.2.1) If so, does it have to have stepped through completely,

8.2.2.) or just one space?

RtL and WoD

9) 3 Master Kobolds + 2 Trapmaster cards (1 vanilla, 1 from Threachery): If this combination is in play, would some low threat trap cards (3,4, or even 5 threat) cost either

9.1) zero threat to play?

9.2) minimum 1 threat to play?

9.3) negative threat to play (ie actually give the OL threat for playing them)?

RustyDust said:

We've always played it that the dungeon level is now considered inaccessable, so the area and monsters are just removed.

RustyDust said:

Everything is determined by the squares on the board. You can't just add squares inbetween map pieces to fit your needs. Not sure if it requires line of sight or not, but that would be put on the card.

RustyDust said:

It's in the FAQ, a figure with Blast may not choose to not use it.

RustyDust said:

Right from the book:

Each end of a given magic gateway is composed of two adjacent
squares, as indicated by the glowing, colored area on the map
piece. Both squares at one end of a gateway are considered
adjacent to both squares at the other end of the gateway for
purposes of movement, and only for the purposes of movement.
Thus, for example, it costs one movement point to move from
either square at one end to either square on the other end, but it
is not possible to make a ranged attack or trace a breath
template’s attack between a gateway’s two ends.

They're only connected for movement... and are not considered adjacent otherwise.

Not sure on some of these, and am always open to debate. But that's my take on most of them.

"1) If all four heroes leave dungeon level 1 via the portal and/or town portal and enter dungeon level 2, what happens to
1.1) the dungeon level 1: Is it discarded, or does it remain as a viable play area (for example for monster spawns?"

The dungeon level is dismatled, the figures removed, the level is over. The actual dungeon card either goes back in the pile to be shuffled and come out again in a future dungeon (OR some people prefer to move it to the graveyard until all the dungeon levels have been played, and then start using them again)

"1.2) If is is discarded, what happens to any remaining monsters."
They are just removed

"2.) Are they considered killed by the heroes (thus entitling them to any master monster kill rewards)?"
No, they are just removed from play.

"3) How is the distance for 'Spiritwalker' determined? Is it counted in map squares, as if the hero had somehow traversed the intervening spaces (thus considering such impassible obstacles as closed doors)? Or is it a 'raw' radius determined by laying on the hero figure with the spiritwalker skill a radius of 10 spaces (or the reduced number of spaces for the RtL campaign - which I currently don't know) totally ignoring any intervening obstacles and even non-existent map squares (such as in adjacent rooms which are not directly connected by map squares but which would be within the spiritwalkers 'action' radius)?"

We've always played it, and I'm pretty sure this is correct that it is raw radius, ignoring LOS, obstacles, and can even go across non-existent map squares. If this is wrong, I'd like to know real soon.

"4) Can a figure with a blast attack choose to ignore its usage?"
In the FAQ, no.

"5) Can a figure on one side of a gateway use a melee attack to attack a monster on the other side of gateway?"
No

"9) 3 Master Kobolds + 2 Trapmaster cards (1 vanilla, 1 from Threachery): If this combination is in play, would some low threat trap cards (3,4, or even 5 threat) cost either

9.1) zero threat to play?
9.2) minimum 1 threat to play?
9.3) negative threat to play (ie actually give the OL threat for playing them)?"

9.1 is the only logical answer. There is nothing that says minimum 1, and negative threat just seems silly.

Hm, when determining the distance for effects such as Spiritwalker (or respawning in Doom), we always counted all map squares including obstacles and doors, straight and not curved, but didn't count "nonexistent" map spaces. Like, when the corridor takes a looong curve, it's not possible to skip the curve via Spiritwalker just two nonexistent map spaces away, but (taking the Doom example again) on the other hand respawning would be possible right on the other side of the wall (read: gap between map tiles) if there was no direct actual-map-space path that was shorter than 8 squares.

Did we do it wrong?

haslo said:

That's how we do it too. Distance is counting map squares, but ignoring all obstacles, props, and figures on the map.

Most of these are answered in the rulebook actually, and people have covered them great.

To support Paul, Blast is NOT optional but Breathe is. I'm hoping for this to be changed in the next FAQ to make Blast optional.

Questions 1.0-2.2.1 can are all related and can really be answered by this line in the rulebook:

"Each dungeon consists of three levels, which are linked together by portals. Each level is generated separately from the others, when the heroes enter it, and each dungeon’s levels are explored sequentially, one at a time ."

That line right there means that you can't go back to previous levels, and since to generate each level separately you have to break down the board.

The Spiritwalker one isn't explicitly covered, but you can't use nonexistant spaces to infer the range to the friendly figure. It ignore all obstacles, wall, doors, LOS, etc etc. As long as you can count 10 (or 5 for RtL) squares on the board to get to the friendly figure you are fine.

As for the questions concerning Leap attacks and Gateways:

To the best of my knowledge you can't make a :eap attack through a Gateway. While Leap attacks move you twice your remaining movement points, but it is still considered an attack. The rules for Gateways explicitly say:

"Both squares at one end of a gateway are considered adjacent to both squares at the other end of the gateway for purposes of movement, and only for the purposes of movement . Thus, for example, it costs one movement point to move from either square at one end to either square on the other end, but it is not possible to make a ranged attack or trace a breath template’s attack between a gateway’s two ends."

Tricky part is that since the rules for Leap don't actually require you to make an attack (it says: The leaping figure may then make one
attack roll that affects any enemy figures in the spaces it just moved through.), it could be said that it satisfies the rule for using Gateways since you only move. But since even though you don't make the attack with Leap, it still considered an Attack action by that figure I would say you can't.

Writing this part just made me realize how good Blood Apes actually are. I never though about having them do a Leap attack without rolling to gain double movement.

Hi,

Big Remy said:

What makes you so sure to say you cannot use nonexistant spaces to infer the range? Our group had this discussion when we had to count the range for command , and we decided you should count nonexistant spaces as well. They are not really "nonexistant", but in fact are walls not explicitly marked as such (since they're surrounded by "normal" wall tiles and cannot be moved to anyway, or in more practical terms because it would be silly to include all-walls-map tiles with the game).

I think it's strange that "normal" walls that are represented on the gaming table via map tiles are counted, and other walls not represented as such on the table are not.

You can houserule it anyway you like of course , but I'd be curious about the rationale behind your statement.

-Kylearan

Well, the fact that both Command and Spiritwalker say "spaces". If there is no board there, then how can there be spaces? Unless you consistantly put down unused pieces of board tile into those empty areas, there is no way to tell if you are actually counting the correct number of spaces. Those empty areas are for all intents and purposes non-existant for everything in the game.

Thx for all your quick answers.

My bad about Blast. Just found it in the FAQ, must have missed it the first time round. Sorry.

@Big Remy and Paul Grogan:

Removal of the dungeon board and monsters: Thx, the 'sequentially' and 'one at a time' was a good reason though I as an OL don't like it that much as it removes a bit of the long-term dungeon strategy from my game.

I still consider this open for debate as my reading of this just means that the heroes have to enter at the first dungeon, then go ahead to the second, etc. It also means that the heroes can't just start at level 3, go back to level 1, and then enter 2. But it does not explicitely state that all tiles and monsters are removed. At least I couldn't find an offical ruling yet. And as that was not explicitly stated I had to ask what happens to the monsters? Are they now invulnerable? I wanted to give my heroes a chance to have at them again if the previous levels remained on board.

But <sigh> for our game your argument supports the logic of our heroes just too well, so for now we'll stick with your proposal.

But beg to differ on your reason of having to dismantle a level to use the parts to build the next level:

If you have enough tiles you could usually build all three dungeon levels without dismantling any single one of them (my case here - we as a group pooled together and actually got 2 basic D:JitD, plus 2 WoD and one AoD yet). This gives you more than enough tiles to go on a building spree. This was my reason for asking these questions. It seemed silly to me to dismantle a dungeon when more than 2/3 of the box was still chock full of tiles. But again, ok, I see, concede, and accept your reasoning.

Considering Blast to be optional: I support that idea a lot, despite it going against posted rules. Hope for an FAQ change soon. Sorcerers being cornered by heroes, then being unable to free themselves with their own attacks by causing auto-suicide is just plain silly.

Gateways and melee/magic attack: k, can't pass through, thought so, too. Only I got a rules lawyer at my table. The part about 'ranged and breath template' which did not include either magic or melee caused a heated argument which blew a lot of the fun for me even when I quoted the 'movement only' part back at him.

Gateways and Leap attack: yep, just my problem.

Tricky, just like you said. Leap ability does not actually require an attack after the leaping. Thus it does not actually constitute an attack.

Quote: AoD, page 9: under Leap: 'A figure with the Leap ability can make a Leap attack. The figure moves in a straight line (...) up to twice its remaining movement ignoring obstacles and enemy figures. (...) The leaping figure may then make one attack roll that affects any enemy figures it just moved through.'

Thus this should be constituted to be a move _followed_ by an attack. Personally I would call for the argument that a leap attack through a gateway should be legal, as it is first a move, after its move it _may_ attack. Again, another heated argument at my table. But I am open for suggestions here, tho I personally see it as legit.

Still, the question about passing through a gateway completely for a large monster before being able to attack remains unanswered.

For a blood ape it might not be significant, but for a dragon it gets ridculous. At least move 3 plus a lot of free space on the other side of a gateway just to attack?

What is your take on this one? Move through completely or at least one space (or the front two spaces)?

RustyDust said:

You are right in that it is not explicitely stated that it is what you do, but this is also the first time I have ever suggested it be othewise. You don't have enough tiles to make it actually, RtL only comes with 1 Portal tile :-) So if you made all three levels at once, two of them would be missing the Portal and leave you no way to get to the next one apart from going to town through a glyph, and coming out in the next level down. That clearly isn't the intent since you need to kill the Level Boss to advance to the next level. Additionally, if played this way it would be incredibly hard to stop mid dungeon as you would have to keep track of the three floors, where monsters are, Hero postions, etc. I'm going to play the dreaded intent game and say that isn't what FFG had in mind.

Even if you could do this, monsters on the level the Hero just left would be useless. They can't use Glyphs and they can't enter the Portal space, so how would they get to the next level? Even if there were a Master Monster worth 50 gold left, and you had grabbed the chest and gold piles, why go back a level at all?

Leap in reality is a simutaneous Move/Attack since you attack the targets you pass over.

As for large monsters and Gateways, I sadly don't have an answer and I don't know if there is an official one. My inclination would be that they completely move to the other side once they spend the 1MP to enter the Gateway.

"@Big Remy and Paul Grogan:

Removal of the dungeon board and monsters: Thx, the 'sequentially' and 'one at a time' was a good reason though I as an OL don't like it that much as it removes a bit of the long-term dungeon strategy from my game.

I still consider this open for debate as my reading of this just means that the heroes have to enter at the first dungeon, then go ahead to the second, etc. It also means that the heroes can't just start at level 3, go back to level 1, and then enter 2. But it does not explicitely state that all tiles and monsters are removed. "

There is no long-term dungeon strategy. Each level is independent of the other one.

Sorry, but this is not really open for debate. When the heroes go through the portal, they arrive at the next dungeon level. Just because you have more than one set of Descent and can make up multiple levels doesnt mean that this is how it should be. Once they are on level 2, they cannot get back to level 1 at all, it is over. Same when they get to level 3 - there is no way back to level 2. Also, you cannot have different heroes on different levels. The rules clearly state once all heroes leave the level, they appear on the new one.

Actually, there is a long-term dungeon strategy... It involves holding off on spending threat as much as possible until you get your two power cards in play, and only spawning if you know the monsters will be of some immediate (or almost immediate) use.

Hi,

Big Remy said:

Ah okay, I see your reasoning now. Note however that counting the spaces would not be a problem at all - you always have some spaces parallel to the nonexistant ones to use. From a very strict reading of the rules, I guess you might be right - although it feels really wrong IMHO, and will probably remain a house-rule for our group. YMMV, of course.

-Kylearan

QUOTE

You are right in that it is not explicitely stated that it is what you do, but this is also the first time I have ever suggested it be othewise. You don't have enough tiles to make it actually, RtL only comes with 1 Portal tile :-) So if you made all three levels at once, two of them would be missing the Portal and leave you no way to get to the next one apart from going to town through a glyph, and coming out in the next level down.

/QUOTE

Again, thx Big Remy. That was clear and concise.

True; especially for the missing second or third portal tile. So I actually could not build all dungeons at once. In this case we (both hero players and OL) would have used the old flling-it-in-with-a-replacement-trick. Even some published FFG quests had too many master monsters of one type to actually have enough figures to place them, so FFG told the players to pick a replacement figure. We wanted to do something similar for the portal area: add a 2*2 tile plus any unused gateways, or add one of the usual end tiles as the end of the portal area. Any spaces in this created 2*3 area were supposed to be portal spaces.

But true, I can follow and accept your reasoning. And again, it is flawless. As I already said above, we will use the 'official' ruling from now on.

QUOTE

...

Even if you could do this, monsters on the level the Hero just left would be useless. They can't use Glyphs and they can't enter the Portal space, so how would they get to the next level? Even if there were a Master Monster worth 50 gold left, and you had grabbed the chest and gold piles, why go back a level at all?
...

As for large monsters and Gateways, I sadly don't have an answer and I don't know if there is an official one. My inclination would be that they completely move to the other side once they spend the 1MP to enter the Gateway.

/QUOTE

--SPOILERS ON

To give you some food for thought why I had wanted to leave monsters behind: get a total of 3 gold level master kobolds on dungeon level 1 of the Spider Queen's Keep. From now on you would have a -6 threat cost for each and every trap for the rest of all 4 remaining dungeon levels. Kobolds at gold aren'T worth for anything else, in my opinion. Add 2 'Trapmaster' cards (1 vanilla, 1 treachery) and those traps will really start to hurt (+4 damage each with ignore armor in most cases is quite bad). At a total of -8 threat each trap you could chuck out traps like nobody's uncle. As there are four doors to open for the final avatar fight you could have most of them trapped even with serious traps, leaving the heroes in dire straits vs the Queen.

And even previous to that you could easily do the following several times: use a 'falling blocks' trap (now zero threat), followed by a pit trap (again zero threat) resulting in a total of 8+6 points of ignore armor damage is definitely worth thinking about, not to mention the hindrance to the movement of a hero with this combination. With a few of the traps from the treachery deck this could become a real horror for the heroes.

See my reasoning for these strange questions? Kobolds on any level with active heroes are dead within 2 rounds especially at gold. Kobolds on a previous level are relatively safe. Even if the heroes were able to return to a previous level to remove these pesky kobolds they would still have to leave another area unguarded for more spawn cards.

---SPOILERS OFF--

Large monsters passing through a gateway for 1 mp completely. Hmmm. Nice idea. Have to mull that through, or even playtest it. Thx.