Dear fellow GMs,

I have a question regarding the rules for fire or better the exposure to fire. The rules as written are rather clear so I didn’t posted this in the rules forum, but I wonder how other GMs (would) handle a few things.

Once upon a time…[Damned Cities spoiler]…my PCs ventured to the estate of Lady Amorite to check whether she still has a mirror fragment as Eupheme Tassel had told them after the attack on the Judiciary Court. At the main door they heard screams from upstairs and quickly entered combat with the present Risen (5). After one or two rounds of shooting (and being stunned due to one Risen’s Warp Howl ability) the Guardsman and Psyker entered into close combat. To cut a long story short: When the fire - due to the dropped chandelier from (the in the meantime deceased) Lady Amorite - expanded rather fast, all of them retreated/disengaged from combat/the fire as sort of did the Risen; the exception being the Guardsman wielding his Eviscerator and duelling with one of the Risen. Both caught fire and while the Risen ignored it (due to it’s From Beyond trait), the Guardsman started to fail his WP-test (five times in a row) to act normally instead of screaming and running around as the rulebook describes)…

How would you handle this situation?
(In the end (of the session) I let it open, but I intend to let him burn a Fate point to have survived the burning of the house by falling through a window into the overgrown garden.)
Would you allow Reactions, even though he failed his WP-tests to act normally? (I did)
Would you allow him fleeing (the fire (in panic)) and thereby disengaging, even though he failed his WP-tests to act normally? (I did not)
Would you say he sort of disengages automatically, when failing the WP-test to act normally as the description says he runs around screaming? (I did not)
Would you say he drops everything held in hand, when he fails the WP-test to act normally? (I did not)
How do you handle fire in the long run? D10 damage per round is not that scary for a TB5 Guardsman with 18 Wounds (i.e. suffers only 1.5 Wounds per round on average).

Thanks in advance for your help.

Luthor Harkon said:

When I ran this I dispensed with the normal risen and just had them all spouting dark fire as per the '10' mutation as they were getting close to the truth and so 'he' wanted to eradicate all evidence. They were therefore duelling these flamethrowers whilst also trying to rescue the shard whilst the mansion burned down around them. I personally thought it made for an interesting fight, or at the very least a different from normal fight! Anyway I also got a couple of characters on fire. Most of them them that caught fire did the sensible thing and immediately tried to put it out but I have one that is heavily augmented despite not being a techpriest (badguys always lop bits off him for some reason), very tough and was frenzying. As a result he felt his character would just carry on. I allowed him to as long as he passed his WP tests.

I would think of it this way: first round they catch fire it is probably part of their clothing. They either take the pain and carry on (WP passed) or panic (WP failed). If they fail they stop thinking at all straight and run away from fire, thinking of nothing else. If they fail to put it out the fire will spread, more bits of clothing, onto hair etc. So the more rounds the harder it becomes to ignore.

In answer to your questions:

Reactions: No, I think the rules are pretty clear. He can do nothing but run if he fails WP. I interpret this as instinctive running and therefore he would run away from fire and should be hard to get by someone trying to kill him as they will need to run each round to catch him.

Fleeing: Yes, see above.

Disengaging automatically: He flees away, he does not use a disengage action.

Dropping: I would say no, or give him a test to keep hold. I would say it is a bit mean to make him leave his shiny thing behind based on one WP test.

Long-run: I would leave it as in the rulebook up to a point. If he just sits there on fire then I would start adding to the dmg so it is more likely to beat his toughness after a while. So D10+1, next round +2 etc. This should stop them just ignoring it.

i would whole heartedly agree with BrotherKane, the biggest issue is how to apply the rules, due to the nature of fire though i may have been tempted to say that after the multiple failed tests, HE drops to the floor and begins rolling around in an failed attempt to stop the flames enshourding his body, maybe cause some effects to the clothing he is wearing such as charring or dropping down a level of craftmanship due to it burning and warping in the heat. The best way to deal with fire in the long run is burns, say the player contracts some bad nasty looking burns, no dmg becuase of his high toughness as he is able to block out the pain, but now he has some medical issues in progress that he may want to get looked at.. that thought is a little dangerous becuase it may prove to be a simple annoyance that the player ignores, however i like BrotherKane's pseudo Incinerate rule, 1d10 + number of rounds you are on fire dmg may be a really good way to deal with it, although after 5 rounds of just running around and screaming i think any player would try to put it out just to go back into combat, also if he was carrying any alcohol (as all my players do...curse you bulletstorm) then it definitaly should burst, dealing firebomb esq dmg to the player, that can also deal with the dmg from flames..hope this is somewhat helpful.

Thanks for your helpful input!

@BrotherKane:

At first I also thought about giving one of the Risen the “dark fire” mutation you mentioned, but in the end I decided against it, as I wanted a more mundane fire to threaten them and thought the warp howl ability is nice to disrupt and hinder the PCs a little, when the Risen try to escape with the mirror fragment.

Apropos augmented, my groups Tech-Priest used his Ferric Lure ability to get hold of the metal stand where the mirror shard laid on about 15 m away behind the Risen and thus almost sort of cut short this climatic encounter. I decided the shard drops halfway from the metal stand, as the shard itself was unsecured on the stand.

Well, all your answers seem fitting and right. Unfortunately, in the heat of the encounter I decided differently. But it was still very enjoyable encounter (except for the Guardsman maybe). Next time I will handle it differently.

@Darkmittens:

Yup, I also decided that his Light Carapace armour will become poor due to the burned bindings. His Eviscerator and maybe his guns also become poor, but the groups Tech-Priest could try to bring it back to standard craftsmanship by a Trade (Technomat and/or Armourer) test.

Instead of any alcohol, I fear more what could/would happen to the loads of ammunition and grenades on your body if you burn for multiple rounds…

My group is now just about to start Dead Stars. The problem I found with the Risen is that although tough the 'primitive' weapons meant they basically couldn't hurt my PCs and therefore they weren't scary at all (also most of my PCs are either immune to fear or have to roll really badly to fail). So I thought the fire was a bit different.

As for heat of the moment decisions I think anything is fine as long as you are consistent. I know that is all I want when I'm a player.

Thinking about the fire rules I also think it isn't too terrible to have a guy running around unable to control himself as long as he has other party members to help him. They are after all supposed to be a team. In my game another party member shouted at the guy ignoring the fire to point out how stupid he was being and tried to help put him out. You may have to force it with a particularly tough character (WP and T) but I think a lot of the time the rules themselves will mean they act in a reasonable manner.

Luthor Harkon said:

Hi Luthor,

@Reactions
Nope. If he failed the test, I would make count as at least being "stunned" ("occupied"). No reaction and +20 to hit the poor smug.

@Flee/Disengange
I would allow him to flee... not disengange. This means a free strike by his opponent. As a house rule to the "free strike"; I changed it to "any previously engaged enemies of the n/pc my use their reaction as an additional "free attack" againt the fleeing n/pc.

@Drop it!
Here it is, the Dreaded "depends on" answer. Both situations are likely (grasping something in panic/dropping it while in panic). perhaps "let the dice decide!" ?

@Damage
Yep, that is nothing to really fear. And lets face it, fire can cause tremendeous damage. Perhaps this should be changed to "loss of 1d5 wounds; loss of wounds cannot be greater then the number of turns you are on fire". Or simply "loss of wounds equal to the number of turns you are on fire. One in the first, two in the second, etc," This would lead to rather minor burnings if one is taken to ground and the covered in sand/something else very quickly while things will get ugly after round three.

I think everyone is over a looking something very big here and that is you take 1 level of fatigue each round. well once they are over the Toughness they are unconscious, at that point i would say they are burning to dead and have to use a fate point to live

Luthor Harkon said:

Responses underlined.

Thanks again for the helpful replies.

>>No. He does nothing but "run around and scream".

I thought it mentions "he can take no action, but run and scream". Thus I though he could still make Reactions (e.g. Dodges) and maybe could disengage (uncontrolled) by "running around". In the end my ad hoc decision during the session seems a little weird now (i.e. allowing the burning PC to Dodge, but not to use any sort of (Half-/Full-)Action except screaming and remaining in melee while running around so to speak...). Disallowing Reactions and allowing to flee (i.e. disengaging) in wild panic (thus more or less randomly) might have been the better and more fitting decision.