Hi there,

There is some discussion on French forum about wether effetcs such as Bloodrider capacity can cancel only triggered character abilities or also passive character abilities.

As a matter of fact, although passive abilities are not triggered effect, they ARE triggered as explained several times in the FAQ, including the timing chart.

For instance, from the FAQ:

Page 14 : A passive ability is defined as an ability on a
card already in play that triggers automatically,
without a choice from the player.

§2.4 If a response or passive ability is triggered, the
effect can only occur once per trigger.

§3.13 Attachment, location, and character card
effects can only be triggered (or affect the
game) when the card is in play.

Page 12 : A play restriction is an element that controls
when or how often the character ability may
be triggered.

Page 14: Most effects in A Game of Thrones resolve
immediately after being triggered, but some
effects last for a set period of time, or even
indefinitely. Effects that last for longer than
a single action are considered lasting effects.
Both actions and passive abilities can be
lasting effects.

Page 14 : If two passive effects are triggered at the same
time, the first player always chooses the order
in which these effects are resolved.

Page 15: 4) Passive abilities, triggered by the action, are resolved:

IV) Initiate passive abilities
triggered by the passive ability
(following I through IV)

d) Initiate passive abilities triggered
by the response (follow I through IV above)

Save/cancel responses work differently, as
their "gates" are closed after all players pass
on playing a save/cancel response immediately
after an action/passive ability/response is
triggered (see below).

Page 16 : A Moribund card (and its attachments) is considered to have been killed, discarded, returned to its owner's hand or deck, or moved to its owner's shadows area, but only for the purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities. This includes responses and passive
abilities triggered by a card being placed in the appropriate out-of-play area.

"This passive ability is triggered and executed when Benjen Stark became moribund"

4) Passive abilities are triggered
Any passive abilities that are triggered as a
result of the action (or a save/cancel response
hereto), are now initiated.

.................

and so on. Even in the timing chart it is written passive abilities are triggered.

FAQ 3.10 clearly differentiates between "triggered abilities" and "passive abilities." So for the purposes of what affects what, this should be the definition to go by, I guess? The language does seem a bit fuzzy in that Bloodrider talks about "character ability just triggered", and passive abilities are included in character abilities. So I'm not sure.

Bolzano said:

"Effect just triggered" or "ability just triggered" refers to effects/abilities defined as "triggered abilities" only. This is simply a templating standard for interpreting card text because "triggered," when used in card text, indicated player choice in this game.

In saying that a passive ability "triggers," you are simply saying that it has initiated - not that you had any choice in the matter. Just because the FAQ uses the word "trigger" to describe when a passive ability activates does not make the word applicable in all contexts.

This particular discussion has been around since the card " Trickery " came out in the Throne of Blades set.

Thanks for the answer.

But I guess the FAQ should be reworded to avoid this confusion in the future, saying that passive effects initiate or whatever rather than trigger. Or at least add a paragraph that says what you just said about "trigger" in card context.

From my understanding, the FAQ clearly defines what a Triggered Ability is in section 3.10 like Saturnine stated. Anything outside of that section should be not considered a triggered ability in terms of what can be Responded to.

Otherwise there is a good argument against discarding cards from your hand vs discarding your hand.

Bomb said:

This one has been specifically addressed in the FAQ, though.

Khudzlin said:

But so are Triggered Abilities in section 3.10. They are defined by the bold text "Response:" or "Phase:" and are optional.

Yes, but the FAQ also says:

(2.4) Responses Per Trigger

When a response or passive effect is triggered, the effect can only occur once per trigger.

That's the source of the confusion because it seems to imply passive effects trigger too.

The FAQ clearly defines pasive ability as triggered. It just says the trigger does not require any choice from the players.

Right. However it also has a specific definition for a "Triggered Ability".

Now maybe the problem is with the text "ability just triggered" because that is clearly ambiguous even if it intends to respond only to "Triggered Abilities". Maybe a FAQ entry for such responses should be added... however I would think that with the clear definition of "Triggered Ability", it is likely only able to respond to that. Otherwise you will be too busy trying to figure out what passive abilities apply and which don't in terms of being able to trigger responses on them.

Bolzano said:

What I said earlier - that even though passive abilities can be said to have "triggers," they are not viable Response triggers for "ability just triggered" effects - is FFG's stance on the whole thing.