Has anyone spotted any way to aquire the psyker trait, other than choosing Sorcerer or Psyker and/or being Tzeentch aligned?

Sadly no. I was hoping to turn an idea I had with DH (Slaaneshi adept who could use some sorcery), but sadly doesnt feel possible with this system unless I want to go for psyker.

Psyker powers are a pretty central part of a character, so it makes sense that you'd have to choose the archetype based on them.

From what I gather, those are the only way to obtain Psyker abilities.

I think this is a bit disappointing, the fact that you can't get Psyker or Mechanicus Implants without chosing the associated archetype really undermines the claim that Black Crusade is a classless system for me. That said, I understand that we can't have Renegades that are also psy rating 3 psykers,

I really don't see why the Psyker trait couldn't have been buyable in some way, there would've been a tier 3 advancement or whatever that gives you Psyker, as you'd still need to sink a lot of XP into psy rating and powers to really reach the level of power a starting psyker gets, and by that point the psyker could easily have buffed his combat abilities up to the point of a starting renegade.

BC may not have rules for getting certain things, but you still have the old standby of Rule Zero. (DM Fiat). Make them run through a quest arc to get their shiny new implants or mind magics, then bam, rewards. And rewards they'll appreciate, because they couldn't just buy them with an Infamy test.

Hardcore Heathen said:

Just winging it is always an option, but considering the previews were all about the versatility in chaos and the fact that every heretic is unique and how the system was going to be classless, it's a bit of a let-down, and there's no reason they couldn't just have made rules for it.

i agree with hardcore heathen on that though i did bend the rules for my campaign im running and let the csm champ buy them with starting xp but it cost the full wak as he wanted to play an up an coming iron warrior warsmith.

@Cynicus

I really don't see why the Psyker trait couldn't have been buyable in some way, there would've been a tier 3 advancement or whatever that gives you Psyker, as you'd still need to sink a lot of XP into psy rating and powers to really reach the level of power a starting psyker gets, and by that point the psyker could easily have buffed his combat abilities up to the point of a starting renegade.

None of the archetype powers are replacable (well, apart from the Adroitness of the Renegade, since there are other sources for Unnaturals) - which suits me just fine as now your character will have at least one distinguishing mark no other character will encroach on.

You could use the sorcery rules from DH. It makes sense really, if they are a psyker, then they would need the psyker trait, use the psyker rules etc and therefore need the psyker/sorcerer archetype. But if you could brought over sorcery, it would make much more sense for the renegade to have the ability to do the things a rating 3 psyker could do, since he has learned the rituals etc. to do them, even if he doesn't have the inborn natural gift from his genes themselves.

Ha, simple!

Want a BC character to obtain the Psyker trait?

Ask the GM if it is possible to acquire the Hellspawn mutation/gift (100 on the major mutations chart on p. 335 of DH) on attaining Gifts from the Gods . If allowed have the heretic make a challenging Infamy test to see if they're successful...

...In the process not only acquiring the Psyker trait but also From Beyond, Daemonic (+2 or +3), Frightening and Psy Rating 2. For purposes of sychic abilities would class as being Unbound.

Other than that, how about importing the Nascent Psyker elite advance from the Inquisitor's Handbook and later allow the Heretic's 'genius' to flourish under the tutelage of a sorcerer/psyker?

I'm partial to having a librarian or imperial psyker go chaos. Then you have the psyker trait, and can get a second trait, so you can have a techpriest/psyker or psyker/heretek.

Cifer said:

That's all fair and well, but it's not the "classless" that was promised.

The thing is that spontaneously getting psychic powers at the point you are with a Black Crusade character is not terribly likely. Psykers are generally known before they hit adulthood. Those that get them afterwards are not likely to do so under their own power (mutation). There are those that can study to become sorcerers, but that can be partially replicated by going to Tzeentch route (likely to have a load of forbidden lores and so not difficult to align). Of course that does leave out sorcerers of different alignments, so it might just have to wait for a later book which provides sorcery rules for Black Crusade.

I am a bit miffed about not being able to get Mechanicus Implants though. Fine in Dark Heresy and the like where the Mechanicus isn't going to give it to anyone but their own, but surely you could find a corrupt Tech Priest in Black Crusade who would be willing to do it for the right price?

in original Realms of Chaos, whenever it would check for whether you could hit apotheosis (or spawndom), if you were not yet ready, your god would give you psy powers (if you're more fighty than psykery) or fighty abilities (if you're more psykery than fighty). Thus could Nurglites, Slaaneshi, and Tzeentchians (and Undivided) all gain psy powers. Then again you had little choice over whether you started as a psyker or not.

Mechanicus Implants, however, are noted to involve much more than simply installing the implants. There's a culture and way of life associated with the admech, whether dark or vanilla flavor. I don't necessarily agree with the decision... but I feel that restrictions on psy and mechanicus stuff are actually a GOOD thing, to keep characters individual rather than 100% of chaos followers being cookie cutter heretek psyker renegades or forsaken/champion techmarine sorcerers.

@Cynicus

You can't become a Space Marine mid-game either. Your point is?

My point is that the product is different from what was advertised in the various previews posted before release.

I'm not saying it's neccesarily a bad thing, but classless was advertised and classless was, in my humble opinion, not delivered.

Sidenote on the SM thing; there's a perfectly good reason for that not being possible, as a person needs to be in their early teens to stand a chance of succesfully going through conversion, and that's not really a viable age for a regular heretic who is capable of holding his own without SM armour and implants.

Cynicus said:

I don't think it's different than what was advertised, it's just different from what you wanted.

The argument you used for Space Marines is just as applicable to the AdMech and Psykers.

Psykers are born, not made.

The AdMech, Light or Dark, don't share the good toys with anyone.

Cynicus said:

This sounds more like someones inner munchkin is upset because he can't be all uber-psyker-techpriest.

One can always acquire the Mark of Tzeentch as a reward and become a psyker. No need to be a psyker to start.

While it's true that psykers are born, characters can be from outside the imperium, I see no reason why, fluff-wise, it wouldn't be possible for a person with a low psy-rating to be born on some backwards planet that's never visited by the black ships to focus on swordplay or what have you instead of going full-blown psyker, but still having that psyker trait.

I'm not sure what part of my posts is giving the impression I'm upset, I'm not saying the restrictions are a bad thing, and I do understand why the choice was made to have them, I just feel the previews implied more classlessness than is actually in the game.

I've no reason to be a munchkin, I'm GMing, not playing. Besides, I'm not saying I should be able to be both a full-blown heretek AND also have psy rating 3 and 500 points worth of powers at the start, I just think it'd have been interesting if i could've given up the Tech-Use +10 and Cold Blooded talents on my Heretek to give him Psy Rating 1 and some telepathy powers, y'know, just for the sake of versatility.

While it's true that psykers are born, characters can be from outside the imperium, I see no reason why, fluff-wise, it wouldn't be possible for a person with a low psy-rating to be born on some backwards planet that's never visited by the black ships to focus on swordplay or what have you instead of going full-blown psyker, but still having that psyker trait.

But it is possible - just take the psyker archetype and buy a few talents based on swordplay or what have you. He merely won't be as good at swordplay (excepting Shattertime...) as someone who focuses on that skill entirely. If it's just about the concept rather than the power, that should be doable, shouldn't it?

That's certainly true, Cifer, and I very much enjoy the system in general because of that freedom, but it's exactly why it seems a bit odd to me that Psyker and Mechanicus Implants are restricted.

If you are DM you can allow to take thoes talents to your player.

I want to play in future as Iron warrior chosen and I'm almost sure my DM will mechandrite talent

Step 1: Start as Heretek

Step 2: Allign yourself to Tzeentch

Step 3: Maintain the allignment until you've rolled the Warpsmith Gift.

Voila, you can have both Mechanicus Implants and Psyker Traits in one character.

Alternately, if someone really cares about it, allow either of those Traits as an Elite Advancement.

I guess I am personally more miffed by the fact that 3 of the Archetypes are used up by very specific things: the Two Psyker types and the Heretek. I think I would have preferred more general ones. It means we then get only a "social" human and a "combat" human (not that bothered by the choice of other Marines... aside from the fact that apparently you can be a Chaos Champion or Chosen while being less experienced than a Deathwatch Space Marine). I might have preferred it if the Psyker and Mechanicus bits were maybe Background packages or similar, that you could apply to an archetype, rather than full archetypes.