My son & I were playing tonight and had to put the game on hold because we couldn't agree my proposed action. can anyone help?

My son had two characters on overwatch. Adjacent and on the same path to these was one of my voivodes. Zorka was on a completely different path.

On Zorka's activation I used magnifier relayed through the voivode. As Zorka did not meet any of the interupt conditions I argued that neither of the overwatches were triggered. My son argued that they would be triggered.

Who was correct?

I have no idea, but a situation like that happened and we ruled that you cant hit the voivoid because of zorkas action, but in our case since the voivoid had to move, the other team just crushed the voivoid with the overwatch so everything went just fine, but if the voivoid by any chance had ended the last turn adjacent to the char on overwatch, zorka would be free to act without any consequences...

That was our ruling on the case, because overwatch says you can interrupt the char, and since zorka is on another path you cant interrupt her, the voivoid isn't acting, hell he isnt even activated yet, so no overwatch on him.

Regards,

Gilberto.

That's my thinking

I must admit that the way the rules are written, Zorka would have to be the target of the overwatch. If she is not on the same path or standing adjacent to the character on overwatch, then no overwatch reaction. I had to read the rules myself when my opponent used extra ammo on me and said I could not use overwatch. He was right the way the rules are written!

mmm... I think the overwatches can start. Yes, Zor'Ka isn't on the same path but rule say:

"Circles anywhere on the game board that
contain or are adjacent to [...] a Voïvode with a
Smiljan Coil in its inventory are considered to
be adjacent to you for the purpose of Magnifier
attacks."

So an attack is starting like if a character was near Zor'Ka, but through a voivode: I think the character on overwatch can attack voivode.

Carlos Castaneda said:

I don't think the quoted rule allows overwatch attacks since it clearly states that the cicles in question "are considered to be adjacent to you FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAGNIFIER ATTACKS." So I'd say the circles aren't adjacent for any other purpose, in this case overwatch attacks. So if the Voivode is just standing adjacent to your character and Zor'ka attacks you from anywhere out of path, you can neither perform an overwatch attack on Zor'ka nor the Voivode. If Zor'ka would use his ability to move the Voivode before the attack, an overwatch attack on the Voivode would be possible.

...It could be so too, the text analyzed in this way is clear... mmm... I don't konw... but I'm convincing myself that it's like ??! said.

Yes it seems a bit unclear, but we ruled similar to Otar, if the voivode is already adjacent Zorka can attack VIA the magnifier without triggering overwatch. But if the voivode must move first, even if using triglaf (?sp) then any overwatch can be triggered. Seems correct and in the spirit of overwatch and the magnifier... But most importantly it didn't seem overpowered or underpowered for either side...

^ plus, it's pretty much your fault if you let one of Zorka's voivode end next to you. They aren't THAT hard to kill- but it's REALLY your own fault if you let her end a voivode next to you where the blast is gonna hit more than one of your guys.

I've seen it happen so often that my opponent makes it **** near impossible to hit more than one person with the magnifier, i'm almost wanting to give it a buff- or Zorka a way to give it a buff.

Confusing situation. I have never been in this situation. I will have to reread the sections in the rulebook one more before answering.

I reread the rules concerning overwatch and now I think the situation could be even worse. Maybe you can't even initiate an overwatch attack on the Voivode if it moved using Zor'ka's Triglaf. Reason is, the overwatch rules state that "the character on overwatch can interrupt an enemy character's activation" if "THE enemy character" moves in a special way or announces an action. The problem of the given situation is, the activated character is Zor'ka and she doesn't meet the conditions for an overwatch attack. The Voivode that moved, on the other hand,is not the activated character. The rules concerning overwatch simply don't cover the possibility of a character moving during another character's activation.

Well that argument is correct, and it was used in our case, but the thing is, we believe that the rules upgraded when Zorka and now Itami have been given abilities that can move people out of turn, so the overwatch rules are left behind at our view and since the idea of overwatch is, you are looking at something carefully, are not going to act, you are going to react to something, a voivoid that sudden hit you with lightning is acceptable to be missed and happen without time to react, but a voivoid moving in your direction? We ruled that you can interrupt it as a normal activation.

But i can totally see it going the other way and i even believe that the rules are clear and your interpretation correct but we just believe that the way we decided it kinda cover both sides, not complete immunity for zorka's actions and not an impossible thing to do either, thats why we ruled the way we did.

I must admit that I can see why you would make an exception to that type of move. In reality, these Voivode have been out since Novgorod and the 2nd addition rules should have taken this into account. I therefore think the free move was intended not to trigger overwatch. Maybe because it is simpler to accept a basic set of rules then add exceptions which can extend them drastically.

Horsa said:

^Good point. Also, because of the easy of putting someone on overwatch to eat a voivode, I always feel like Triglaf is underpowered- maybe it shouldn't trigger overwatch, that would make it feel like it's actually worth taking.

The more I read, the less I know. I was checking other abilities or items that allowed or forced a character to move although he wasn't activated. The trench gun for example states that if it forced a character o move, this movement would not trigger overwatch attacks. On the other hand, the Asteros rules state that the movement of a character moved by Asteros charge attack would trigger overwatch attacks. Conclusion: As the triglaf doesn't mention overwatch attacks, we simply know nothing! Somebody should just send the question to FFG - and please post the answer here!

??! said:

I do take a different conclusion then you on the matter, i think that since Trench Gun and Asteros Charge have specific rules, you follow them when they are present and when they are not present you follow the generic rules or create yours. As i said i believe your reading that Triglaf dosen't trigger overwatch is right, because the voivoids in question aren't even activated, but i do believe that makes Zorka to powerful and we made our house rule to make both sides happy then decided to keep it, even knowing the right rule.

About Asteros Charge and the Trench Gun, i believe they have specific rules just because a gun from a crate < Asteros, so he's meant to be more powerful there for a specific rule to break the general rule on overwatch.

I was just checking tokens and abilities that included any kind of "special movement" to find a general rule. Like: If the special movement doesn't trigger overwatch, it is written in the rule. So we can conclude that overwatch is triggered unless the ability specifically says: Overwatch isn't triggered.

The other option would have been okay too. If the special movement triggers overwatch, it is written in the rule. So we can conclude that overwatch isn't triggered unless the ability specifically says: Overwatch is triggered.

It was just a bit frustrating to find both options in different rules.

Until there is clarification I am using the wording of the main body of the rules as the basis. One must also remember that the current rules are an update of a poorly translated set of French rules. I am hoping that the reason the reprint of the rule book is delayed is because it is getting updated. I doubt this but one can hope.