asbestos said:

Those are cool minis. I HATE boob armor, probably from spending too much time arguing in my youth that No, plate armor didn't mean you had to be winched up on your horse. Which means armor designed to deflect hits right into the heart area are a bit stupid.

Jiltedtoo said:

Heh, while I'm all for women standing up and showing that while God may have created all men, Colonel Colt made them equal, the problem with cool looking minis like those above.... The first one may be in some kind of powered armor and would be okay, but the other two aren't going to be in the situation long with those weapons. Too heavy, too much recoil, not enough upper body strength base.

Heh, that is why men & women have different physical training & testing requirements in the military. People get stupid about this stuff. I'm a big guy, always have been even when I'm "slim & trim". Hurts me on push ups and running some, but I could work on that. The some stupid little buck & a quarter (125 pound) Sergeant -Major tries to give me some grief about it. I had some fun with him the next month on carrying capacity, because no matter how many pushups, situps, miles, etc. he thought he could do, he simply could not lift what I could pick up and walk off with.

The is why the M-60 gunner is a big guy, not some little shrimp or even regular size guy. So, then they hand them to a woman and let her horse it around like a "big boy"? ROFL.

Algesan said:

I can see your point on the belt fed LMG/AR crossover that the middle character is carrying (the weight of the ammo alone is probably rather substantial), but given how the game is 'near future' and we already have sniper/support rifles that are below 10lbs loaded I don't see the female-sniper as unrealistic. In fact, the USAF at least has female snipers (sorry, 'sharpshooters')

http://www.pacaf.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123045566

"Airman 1st Class Kristin Ferris positions herself in the brush during an exercise at Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska, on Aug. 8. Airman Ferris is one of seven enlisted female snipers in the Air Force and participated in a training exercise to eliminate a terrorist in a hostage situation. She is assigned to the 354th Security Forces Squadron. (U.S. Air Force photo by Airman Christopher Griffin) "

And of course there's the historical examples of the various Soviet female snipers during WW2.

asbestos said:

I don't think it's the female sniper so much as the size of the sniper rifle that's rather odd. Women can be excellent shots, but a big rifle is that much harder for anybody to handle. We have weapons under ten pounds, but the Barret M107A1 sniper rifle is touted as being lighter , while still weighing over thirty pounds . That's more than an M60 7.62mm machine gun. It isn't designed to be fired while being carried by anybody. They put bipods and rear rests on those things for a reason.

The rifle she's carrying makes the M107A1 look light. While you can reduce a weapon's weight, you have to remember that physics is still involved. Part of the recoil control on a weapon is due to the mass of the weapon, so a big sniper round fired from a light weapon is going to have more of the Newtonian recoil energy channeled through the firer's body instead of the weapon. Advanced recoil compensators can help, but when you consider the first Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle was considered a nasty piece of work for the firer due to the recoil, reduced weight and recoil still leaves a lot to deal with. MERCS has powered armor, but only moderately so. The weight and recoil of any weapon is still going to be an issue.

Well, this is certainly off the original topic (sexist depictions of females in games) but if we want to get technical...

The CCC Sniper's weapon is definitely the Barret of the MERCS world. Not only does the rulebook fluff describe it as being .50 cal, but its the most powerful rifle in the game (able to hurt even the heaviest armored characters on a hit) and has a muzzle brake very reminiscent of the Barret.

The KemVar sniper (the female sniper) has a weapon with the same strength as a regular assault rifle, she also has less downtime between shots (MERCS snipers tend to take for-freaking-ever to reload/recalibrate/whatever), so in my view her rifle is much more similar to a modern DMR/EBR/Whatever they're being called these days than to an anti-material rifle. The weaker sniper rifles in the game have no down time, but have the hitting power of a pistol (and they fire non-standard ammo, like lasers or small harpoons, which I guess would be more like a crossbow bolt)

One group has a rifle that's between the powerful CCC sniper and the KemVar sniper, but with the long down time of the CCC weapon. So... maybe that's some weird caliber like the SVDK ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVDK ironically being fired by a female shooter in the picture)

If the CCC weapon is assumed to be the Barret's future analog, then I think the the present day analog of the KemVar weapon is the Mk.14 EBR or the Remington 700.

Back to Dust... not only is Angela dressed like she just got back from clubbing/shooting heroin at Das Studio 54...

But she ships a weapon that makes the Barret look like a peashooter:

From the FFG article on the heroes of Operation Cerebus..

"Angela is arguably the world’s most dangerous assassin. With her 20mm Solothurn , she is able to eliminate targets before they even become a real threat. In addition, her Frenzy ability allows her wipe out entire squads."

A 20mm Solothurn?

One wonders where she keeps that absurdly large rifle, perhaps she makes the other squad members lug it around for her as she's clearly too busy refunding her meals and/or taking diet pills to put in the necessary time at the gym to be able to carry it.

Good thing she has the broomhandle Mauser (which I assume is where the 'frenzy' ability is coming from, since its easier to imagine burning through infantry with a machine pistol than with a 20mm rifle)

For MERCS, the KemVar sniper may have a lower powered rifle, but it's also a rifle with a secondary weapon system attached that fires a repulsor shell strong enough to keep people from being able to close with each other. That adds to its heft, even if the sniper rifle part is 'only' on a par with the 7.62mm sniper rifles currently in use. Even those carry heft, especially when equipped with telescopic sights.

As an extra on MERCS powered armor, remember that the models can still move and act with the armor malfunctioning, so it can't add to much weight, nor too much strength while operating, or they would have greater capabilities. I liked that the MERCS powered armor is not too over the top, as it gives the game a specific flavor of its own.

As for Angela and her Solothurn, why do you think she dresses like that? It's to help convince nearby soldiers to carry her kit for her. Either that, or she's secretly the equivalent of Totenmeister, and has the traditional strength of a vampire to allow her to carry the weapon like Seras Victoria in Hellsing. That's who I first thought of when I read about Angela and her weapon, due to both the length of the skirt and the size of the weapon.

For hiding the weapon, she can draw inspiration from the old Highlander movies and TV show, where people were constantly able to carry large weapons without them showing until they miraculously drew them from magically hidden scabbards. Perhaps they have developed a prototype alien tech dimensional rift rifle scabbard, that allows her to carry a big rifle perfectly concealed until she needs it, like the swords and ammo supplies used in Ultraviolet. That, or they simply wanted to show her matching her 'quite' appearance from Parente's drawings, rather than looking awkward lugging a huge rifle around. That, however, would be too mundane for a frivolous conversation like this, and not nearly as much fun.

As an extra on MERCS powered armor, remember that the models can still move and act with the armor malfunctioning, so it can't add to much weight, nor too much strength while operating, or they would have greater capabilities. I liked that the MERCS powered armor is not too over the top, as it gives the game a specific flavor of its own.

Well, they can sort of move, -2 movement (except for the atomic power loving Waza) will bring the majority of units to a grinding halt, forced to either repair or crawl around by snapping to cover. Most of the lighter armored characters can still move at least 1 card length, but I think the KemVar sniper is stuck since her base movement is 2.

For hiding the weapon, she can draw inspiration from the old Highlander movies and TV show, where people were constantly able to carry large weapons without them showing until they miraculously drew them from magically hidden scabbards. Perhaps they have developed a prototype alien tech dimensional rift rifle scabbard, that allows her to carry a big rifle perfectly concealed until she needs it, like the swords and ammo supplies used in Ultraviolet. That, or they simply wanted to show her matching her 'quite' appearance from Parente's drawings, rather than looking awkward lugging a huge rifle around. That, however, would be too mundane for a frivolous conversation like this, and not nearly as much fun.

Its apparent the Allies don't have such technology, though they may have made some leaps in terms of lightweight composites. Its hard to imagine Rosie lugging around that massive launcher the way she does otherwise.

Edit: I'm trying to mulitquote you and this forum will have none of it.

asbestos said:

Yeah, I ran into that a while back. This forum is both very interesting from some of the people, and very frustrating with the forum mechanics.

Rosie might like carrying the launcher around just to remind people how dangerous she is. As a bazooka, it doesn't need nearly the weight of a rifle to contain the exhaust from firing, so it can look larger, but be lighter. Working with Army mechanics, she's probably used to needing to smack people down sometimes. DUST is well before the insanity of PC.

They've probably created some interesting composites, and the comic notes the Axis having some nice, light weight metal alloys for weapons, but it's far less of an issue for Rosie than Angela.

Gimp said:

Throwing out there that the tube for a 120mm mortar looks smaller than what she has over her shoulders.

asbestos said:

Well, it is an improved bazooka, with significantly better armor penetration. The bazooka started at 60mm, with the panzerschrek that has the same game stats starting at 88mm. In '45, the bazooka was updated to 90mm, but that would still be in the range of the panzerschrek's charge.

Upgrading the weapon to 120mm or more would be a good reason for improved penetration. Rosie could be field testing a new weapon she developed in her spare time away from her walkers.

Gimp said:

OZZ 117 is not an homage to Halo or Master Chief.

It's OSS 117... which is a french James Bond equivalent, with 50+ novels and several movies to his name. One of the latest movies with this character:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0464913/

The character is virtually unknown in the US, but he's pretty famous in Europe, where Dust hails from.

deedob said:

I can accept that, but why not allow that it could be an homage to both characters? A power armored soldier that gives up his name so hardly anyone knows it does fit Master Chief. Spartan 117 might even draw from OSS 117, for that matter. Neither Master Chief nor OZZ 117 comes across as a comic spoof, but if someone liked the character for either one, the option is there.

The OSS 117 films do look interesting for comic relief, so thanks for the link.