Hello,

I've been planning to start running a Black Crusade RPG for some time now. I'm getting to grips with the rules and the presentation, as this is my first RPG and my first time GMing, I already consider myself to be pretty knowledgable on the 40k fluff side of things. However I seem to have fallen at a simple hurdel.

When creating a character the book gives each player an intial 7,000 xp, but states some of this maybe spent during Race and Archetype selection. So I thought I would make a Space Marien and a Human to see how they compare initially, as that is the primary question I'm asked by my gaming group. For the human race it states you get the following at no XP cost. However it does not for the Chaos Space Marine, so I assumed you'd be paying xp for them, the rulebook states they are assumed to be undivided until character creation is complete and they have amassed enough corruption points, so I used that as the basis for the cost of skills and talents.

I worked out the xp cost for being a Chaos Space Marine as 5450 xp. There are 11 Skills at 200 xp each, 9 Tier One talents at 250 xp each, and 2 Tier Two talents at 500 xp each.

For the Achetype, I selected a Chosen, again it does not state you get any of the skills or talents for free. So 2 basic skills at 200 xp each and one +10 skill at 350 xp, followed by 4 Tier One talents at 250 xp. This brings the total for the Achetype to 1750 bring the total for character creation to 7200 xp spent.

I can't seem to find anything to suggest I have done this wrong. Is this simply an oversight? How do other GMs approach this situation?

Look forward to your responses,

Cuddles :-)

I could be mistaken because I am sill waiting for my Black Crusade book, but the 7000 xp for humans and the 8000 xp for chaos space marines is only in comparison to the other game lines Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader and Deathwatch. At character creation you get every skill and talent from your race and your archetype and then you can spend 1000 additional xp as a human and 500 additional xp as a chaos space marine on anything you want.

Thanks for the repsonse Luther,

That seems to be the case with the other 40k Roleplaying books, I own them all just never played them. But when you select your race it spacificly says at the top of the list for talents and skills for Humans that you get the following at no xp cost. Along with that in the Experiance points section summary it states each player starts with 7,000 xp but some may be spent during race selection and archetype selection. Those to statements lead me to believe that picking your race and archetype actually costs you a portion of that 7,000 xp. It just isn't very clear how you should go about working that out.

Cuddles :-)

Cuddles said:

You don't. All the Skills, Talents and Traits granted by both race and archetype are 'free'. You then get an additional 500xp to spend on a starting Chaos Space Marine character, or an additional 1,000xp to spend on a starting Human character. The rest of the (purely hypothetical) 7,000xp has already been spent on the starting packages of race and archetype, and you can completely ignore that value unless you're comparing characters between games.

What No-1 said, the 7000 xp is the total (worth) amount (stats included) of your starting pacakage. when comparing between DH. RT. DW. and BC.

Thanks N0-1_H3r3,

The book seems to be full of missleading mistakes. The fact it states for Humans that the Race skills and talents are free and doesn't for Chaos Space Marines is a pretty crappy mistake to make.

The book seems to be full of missleading mistakes. The fact it states for Humans that the Race skills and talents are free and doesn't for Chaos Space Marines is a pretty crappy mistake to make.

Speak for yourself - I thought it was quite obvious that you don't have to pay for your starting skills, as that has never been the case. By the way, if the starting skills and talents were not free, how would you have paid for the legion gear that is granted in the same paragraph?

Also, the Archetype descriptions are written in exactly the same way: "All X start with talents X, Y, Z", with no mention of XP. Would you like to buy those as well?

Cifer said:

Ease up a bit. New players/GMs don't really need to be browbeaten when asking for advice. He's asking for clarity's sake, not out of stupidity.

Every one of the core rulebooks has a significant chance of being someone's first foray into WH40K RPGs so consistency and clarity should be hallmarks. The system is not overly complicated if you're experienced, or especially if you have played other games in the line, but that might not always be the case.

@BladeHate

Ease up a bit. New players/GMs don't really need to be browbeaten when asking for advice. He's asking for clarity's sake, not out of stupidity.

When someone declares something to be "a pretty crappy mistake to make", that doesn't exactly sound like asking for advice, more like dictating how things ought to be. I have no problem with helping people misunderstanding possibly unclear sections of the rules (alleviating these misunderstandings is kind of the point of these forums), but when you say how things should be, I reserve the right to critique that position, especially since a rulebook without any possibility of misunderstandings would either be one page long or about the size of the books of law of a nation.

Perhaps it was not the most diplomatic way of putting it, especially on a forum with intolerant fanboys.

Answering a poorly worded critique with condescension does you or the community no credit though.

And while the word "crappy" might be an offensive term, it is still a valid criticism from a new and inexperienced player. I'm quite sure that if FFG could re-write the book with little details and feedback like that written in they would. They have a generally poor track record when it comes to first edition spelling mistakes or other errors and omissions, and BC is really no exception though I don't get too worked up about it anymore.

Still, even if the product was "perfect", there could still be room for improvement and feedback from totally new and inexperienced players is some of the most valuable because stuff that's obvious to the rest of us is not to them. And ultimately, these are the people you need to hook if you want to keep growing your market.

Cifer, I stated it was 'crappy' because it specfically states under the race section that Humans do not pay any xp for the following. If you never pay for starting skills, then why state it for one race and not another? The summary of the character creation steps state you have 7,000 xp some of which is used when choosing race, and then achetype. This lead me to believe that I should work out the xp cost of the Race skills and Talents for Marines as it does not state they are free, like it does for a Human. A pretty easy mistake to make.