Now,

I understand that, after my Dark Heresy game with me as GM went on for 7 months, and barely got anywhere, that I had done something very wrong. I could sit here and complain and take it out on myself about how I should have 'realised what had happened' and 'sorted this stuff out' but, I'd be here forever, complaining about the inadequicies of an inexperienced first-time DM.

So.

I'm not going to beat around the bush. I need critisism on an 8-page Campaign I have written. It's the first complete campaign I have written, and, although to have a feasible end point I will run a pre-made next time, I want to know if I'm writing these things in a fun and acceptable way.

If you have DH Campaign DM experience and/or have written successfully-played campaigns in the past, then I need your help. Are you willing to read eight pages of text and assess it for me? Get in contact with me on the Forums with an email address or via some similar method, and I'll email the .doc file to you.

If any of you are willing, then all I have is thanks for you.

Cheers for reading,

Regards,

Stealer

Lay it up on Google Docs and publish it or hit us with the parts that you have suspicions about.

My biggest piece of advice is not to script yourself into a corner. 8 pages of pre-written adventure is a lot. I have a bare skeleton of a story that the players flesh in. My session notes are written a week before we play that session, and amount to 2-3 pages of notes, NPC stats, ideas, settings, set pieces, etc etc... I rarely use them in the order I wrote them. The players are the type to really come up with out of the box solutions so I hate saying "no" to them. My solution was just no to plan that far ahead in that much detail.

8 pages of adventure ahead of time is going to either feel like a railroad or is going to go completely off the rails in about 2 sessions.

I agree with The Flatline : it sounds like you are over-plotting, with an eye toward allowing only a single course of action for your players. Not only do players resent being "channeled" like that (at least that's my opinion- some people inexplicably liked the Dragonlance modules!), but if they decide to follow a different course of action than the one you have outlined, it can throw a hyper-plotted campaign off the rails, perhaps irrevokably. Just establish the broad parameters of the campaign, prep for the "highlights", be prepared to improvise, and let your players tell the story.

TheFlatline said:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v3uHgkpYlcOcj4UBy8DNcpzvVDfiA5zpsGRHv9t5dKw/edit?hl=en_US

The link above is the google Document. First time I've done this, so hopefully it'll work! Yeah hence why I want it checking, I want to know if people would run it. I hope it's quite open and easy to interpret, but as I said, first time I've written one - I've tried to write it with Highlights in mind, but at the same time giving GM backgrounds for NPCs and situations. That is what HOPEFULLY makes up the 8 pages.

As I said, I wrote the first one, and it went on for seven months without going anywhere. After it finished, I realised, I couldn't correct one inside seven months, and was not pleased by this quite specatular failure.

The next one has to be right.

Many thanks for your time, Flatline, and possibly Adeptus-B. please let me know

Regards,

Stealer

What do you mean when you say "it didn't go anywhere"? Different groups have different dynamics and approach roleplaying in their own ways. What failed for one could succeed for another and what one sees as a failure anouther would see as a success. So, if you could elaborate on what you feel is/was the failure, the it went nowhere part, we could have a better idea of what you might need to do or try.

Edit: and in the interm, if you havent given Flatlines write-up on conspiracy creation, you should. It's a great approach and might help you out a lot.

You can read more HERE.

Well,

Basically I made it to complicated.

I didn't leave things open to follow quickly, and because of no sure and concrete lead, no one knew quite what to follow. people were asking me 'why are we going down here?' and at one point I was saying 'look at the evidence you have so far, what does it point you at?' if these statements are being said and these questions asked, then I was not writing right for the group.

3 months passed without a fight, money became a problem, groups were introduced to the party too slowly, and I decided that a whole town wouldn't speak gothic. this became a massive impairment. I made mistakes in how i did sessions, and had to 'rewind'. I wrote 'be a paladin to escape this' situations for players who were not that way inclined - and plus, with the amount of writing i did for it, de-railment was imminent.

At a later date I could put up here what I attempted to do and how it went, but I don't have time tonight. What I need to know is did I write the above file in a suitable style that a lot of people could use for a campaign as a basis or a system.

Did you have a read though the above file?

Could anyone read it for me?

I need thoughts and opinions and critisism from Gamesmasters - I want to write more of them but if I've got the wrong ideas about how to plot them out...

docs.google.com/document/d/1v3uHgkpYlcOcj4UBy8DNcpzvVDfiA5zpsGRHv9t5dKw/edit

Thanks!

I have read it and have a question at the warehouse and the Gang who hits

Is that Gang expecting trouble? and how are they "transporting" the box if they get away with it? Because I would expect they would leave at least 1 Scum with the Getaway/transport Vehicle.

other that I like it

Thank you Thank you so much for reading!

Err YEAH right so yeah because they lost their administratum contact (in fact they slow-poisoned him) they knew they'd have to wait for someone to go get it, and they were watching for it. The Dock-four forman says that others were looking for the stuff if they ask him nice, as the gang needed to know it was in warehousing.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if a DM had them plow through the door with a truck, so the driver would be there, but yeah, leave one of the scum with the truck/ flatbed/hauler/grav-hauler. I'll add that in it's next iteration, many thanks Angel of Death!

You'd run that game? It's comprehensive enough?

I would make it a Flatbed, possible something like a this if it will hold the cargo box and have the Heavy with the Autogun ride shotgun

for the rest crew a van like above

and for more a lowtech feel, have most of the scum carry revolvers

and just leave 1 scum, driver of the flatbed, with 2 vehicles after all, who going to bother them, if need be give that scum a double barrel shotgun.

The one on the left is perfect

That's a great idea. Just downloaded the vehicle rules, too. There could be a Car chase too, if they pummel back the gangers, who then try to flee, and then the Arbites turn up after all the gunfire and commotion, and there's then a pursuit across the tarmac around low flying aircraft and cargo cutters, a Heavy Stubber spitting lead.

Depends if they just cut them all down in one salvo, though Thank you again for the help!

So as a GM you'd run the game? I mean it sounds like you would. Would you add a section 5 as well? Is it in requirement of more campaign on the end?

I would like a stage 5, with a few different Xeno that might be "able to get freed" or someone release it

and yes it is runable

U might have a chase them in the vehicles, they will also provide some clues on where to go and provide the team with vehicles that aren't going to stand out.

I see the same potential problem in your module you describe in your previous game. Your main problem seems to be you are planning on what your characters will do, thus using THEM as trigger points for the plots. If the players don't move the plot forward it doesn't move. You should never plan out which actions your players will take, only what the NPCs will do. Even if your players don't do anything, the NPCs should continue to advance the plot, often by putting the PCs in a situation where they have to react.

The free module "edge of darkness" handles this VERY well, read it if you haven't yet. No matter WHAT the players choose SOMETHING exciting is going to happen. I'll summarize a bit of it.

A murder has happened, the PCs need to investigate it. If the PCs figure out the clues they will proceed to the enemies lair. If they aren't as good, but are tough an NPC will hire them to go after the villians lair. If they aren't good or looking like great mercenaries the enemies will notice them and send thugs to kidnap them. If the enemies don't notice them, or the players defeat the thugs and scare the enemy, the enemy will enact their escape plot to let loose a plague which the players must deal with.

Weather your players are pro-active or re-active, mystery solver or brutes, the plot moves forwards. You should NEVER decide HOW the players react. Never decide where they go and in what order. Never decide what they will figure out.

I've read through your scenario and, first, I have to say you do have a nice simple conspiracy here. That should help combat some of the problems you mentioned from your first attempt. You have some nice evocative ideas in there as well, could be quite fun. However, if you are strictly writing this for your self, you might have come close to writing too much. The more you write down, the more slaved you are to concrete ideas about what is and isn't and the less adaptable to the players actions you will be. This could and often dose lead to stagnation as players try to go in a direction that, according to what you've written, doesn't lead anywhere. In such situations, it's best to make the path the players have chosen the path that advances the story along but if you already have it written otherwise, you'll be more loath to change or alter your ideas on what the story is about and how is is "supposed" to proceed.
That aside, there are a couple of other small points you might want to address in your scenario.

First, you come dangerously close to having only One True Path down the Breadcrumb Trail. There is some variety but, especially at the beginning, it can go south real quick. What happens if the PCs chose to hide instead of engaging the scum until the coast is clear? What happens if the PCs fail to identify where the scum come from?

Second, as mentioned above, your story is very reactive relying on the PCs to do stuff in order for more stuff to happen. The NPCs could use more motivation of their own, and an idea of how they act and what they will do if the PCs do absolutely nothing. Skipping the Big Bad as he's not really part of this part (and you should leave it that way for now... write that part out latter, once the story is well under way so you can structure it in response to what the players are doing/have done).

Since the Adept on the take is dead/captured, what will the Big Bad do now for shipments? Did he want him dead and, if so, why? Dose he know the =][= got the Adept and, if so, how dose that alter his plans and the actions of the bandits? What are the bandits doing about their lost/dead team-mates that were supposed to secure the last shipment? Do they know what happened to them and, if not, what are they doing to find out? (assuming the PCs stop said bandits) Was that the last shipment or will there be more? Think about the bandits and their motivations as well as possible orders they are receiving from on high and what they will do if nothing beyond the death of the Adept changes. That will serve as a good base line to work from if/when the players do something completely unexpected or nothing at all.

Finally, avoid random chance happenings. You have one listed, the 25% chance of the scum attacking the PCs in their sleep or calling them out. Get rid of the 25% chance part of that. The pacing needs of the session and player action should determine if they get attacked in the night or not. If things are really slow and the players are spinning their wheels, then they should most definitely get attacked in the night. If they can't find the hideout and are getting frustrated, it should happen, perhaps with more then listed and with some good old either to make sure they can haul them off for interrogation... at their base (but only managing to get one of the PCs who, if he asks about his microbead/transmitter/anything of the like or mentions trying to hide it, succeeds thus enabling the players to find the base, feel like they did so through their own cunning while in a tight spot, and to get in some of that monologuing the magus is so prone to). If, however, the PCs are battered, bruised, and on their last wound point where having another senseless fight would grind the story to a halt while they healed or rotted 6ft under, then they most definitely shouldn't get attacked at night... unless they just really asked for it to happen.

The needs of the story should determine what happens next, not random chance. There's enough of that from the players and their dice as is.
Either way, you have a good idea here. Just try to keep it lose, make sure their are more then one way to move forwards, don't over write it, and decide what the NPCs do if the PCs do absolutely nothing and I think you'll be good to go.

Hey, I read through your campaign and I like the setting and overall tone. I would have to agree however with the two posters above. It seems the PC' will beable to detract from the story you have set for them and in doing so may end up disrupting the encounters you have planned.

Personally I would like to read a little about your storyline of you last campaign and how your PC' received it, responded etc, that way we can best understand where you may encounter problems. It will also help us to help you determine other things to do should your PC' detract from your story.

Wow Okay I really like this response, people, I massively appreciate it. Thank you for reading the Campaign, and giving me feedback.

This is the kind of Criticism I needed, really, and I want to get down to the dirt of the whole problem. (I love the lore, and I wanna get this thing right, Dammittohell.)

Okay, Firstly, Angel of Death, Good to know about the 5th Stage, it will be added. Bunch of monsters, got it – I wanted to have a hopefully-short-time-achievable end point so I didn’t know if I just wanted an Escape scene for Eresh. I was thinking of the ‘arrive as he takes off in his spacecraft’ sort of thing, and I was worried the Acolytes would be a bit battered from having to ‘cut out’ the major parts of the gang at their hideout. (Plus attack robot and all that.) And, you’re really making me like this Chase Scene, gunfights on the road with people leaping from hauler to hauler sounds amazing.
And the discussion on the matter almost makes me want to make the ‘Pickup crew’ into a fake courier party for a company called ‘Vandross’ who operate out of Stains-town, as a secondary lead.

Secondly, Ripiklash. Yeah this is why after I wrote it I desperately sought experienced Criticism for the Campaign. Try to maker the story move without the PCs help, yeah? Don’t be afraid to sh00t them all for stupidity of the highest order? Non-PC driven storyline…So things just happen around as the PCs move about, and if they cross paths with it, they’ll interrupt it? But in a non-timelined manner?

‘Edge of Darkness’ was the campaign I read JUST before writing this. Edge of Darkness will be my next campaign, for sure; I love the idea of the Alms house. Creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepy. Plus, the best way, it seemed, to get weapons there is to beat up a bad Arbites and nick his multitude of guns, as the Market is pap. (This is a little of what I remember about it.)

Thirdly, Graver. Cheers for the kind words. Tbh this Campaign isn’t just for me, no, it’s an overall view of what is hopefully a playable campaign – I plan to release it upon the general populace (not that I really know how to other than a link to it on Google Documents, but meh, bridge to cross upon arriving at that river.)

I do feel a little slaved to the words, and I think you’re right about the risk of players going off in an odd direction. Beyond the initial interrogation, and then the directing of the Acolytes to Skyway (wait okay they just got dropped off there, am I throwing them at the interrogation like a boomerang?) It’s in their hands, and could just wander off, and I probably would be loath to do so. I fear my planning on the fly hasn’t enough foresight and story-gel to play without a less-than modest Synopsis (rather than, hopefully, a script.) I will try to think about how I’ve written it, and give the PCs the choices (broader descriptions of everything for improvisation by GMs?) Or, basically, no choices, and things just happen that they interact with.

This ‘One True Path’ thing is what I want to overcome. I was trying to think how they could avoid that first confrontation with the Scum pickup party, but the scum wouldn’t know which Warehouse to go to until the PCs showed up there, so I saw it as a thing that would happen. How do you mean the PCs hide? Also I can/a GM could improvise around them not finding out where the scum came from, as there’s a bunch of things that might point to Stains-Town, from Vehicles to Camera feeds from around the town of Al-fah. Tbh I’m having trouble thinking how I could write LESS if I wanted to generally release this campaign somehow.

NPC motivation… yeah I get it. The Big Bad bumped off Geck when he was compromised (the cogitator Virus erasing his files, someone was watching him and ‘iced’ him when the Arbites came for him) but for replacement? They’d probably look (almost straight away, if the PCs don’t go straight to Stains-Town) into getting a new insider at the nearest Adept-worker’s bar, looking for the betting man around the card tables who’s down on his luck – an easy dupe, like Geck was, originally. The Gang is not stupid but likes to do things the way they know it’ll work. I did think about them smuggling stuff down from orbit in silent night runs, but apart from that being very hard for PCs to work out from no starting point, and then it removes Geck from the whole campaign as it’s simply easier to do it that way, if they can. So, it somehow is easier to do it through an insider in Shipping.
He Knows the Arbites have the Adept, but no-one knows the =][= is there, especially not Eresh, who will definitely run if he finds out. Nadar has been after him for a few years. If the Bandits did find out the =][= was here, they’d probably cak their pants and bottle up in their holes.
The Lost/dead guys – the Stains-town posse will find out after a day via word-of-mouth or from Vox communications with perhaps remaining gang wetworkers they have in Al-fah. It’ll make them very wary of outsiders asking about happenings within the Gang. If the Acolytes are making themselves known around Al-fah, then the Remaining Wetworker(s) might try to take them back to Stains-town.

This is Good, I see now. It’s about having an endless list of Backups.

Random Chance = gone. It will be erased. This part of the story, where the players have to be ACTIVE to find the base, it what worries me the most. I could simply have people driving between the base and the town a lot more than I said, and more people know about ‘the Valley’ than I let on. But the whole disguise-field thing, I really like that. The field could muck with micro-bead communications when they get closer to it, in order to make it ‘visible’ from the town (major communications get warped in its locality? This begs the PC’s to ask the question ‘what is making that mess of noise?’)
So with some extra paths, some motivations, some loose thinking and openness to interpretation, this is a playable campaign that simply needs a few things adding. One more question – add a section 5? And how intensive should it be? Should it be like rats in a maze, with monsters round corners (as they might be a bit beat up from smacking up stains-town?) or should it be a full-on Valkyrie and Vendetta slaughterhouse, with PDF assisting in a house-assault? Eresh is gonna wanna run the moment he doesn’t hear from his favourite Monster-Scientist…

Graver, Many thanks again, and I look forward to more of your crits, opinions and thoughts on this.

Fourthly, Maverick91. Many thanks for reading it, sir. Right this previous Campaign, my 7-month mess. Erm… I will do a full write up as another forum post I think due to the length, but I can give an overview for you.
1. I got frustrated multiple times
2. I ‘acted’ too much
3. I made clues hard to find
4. The Clues followed one path
5. The PCs got frustrated (due to boredom and hard clue finding)
6. The PCs got lost at least twice
7. I had a whole town speaking a non-understood language
8. I wasn’t paying them right
9. We got two – five fights in 7 months (AUGH can’t believe that, not thought about that before)
10. I Wrote the whole **** thing out and STILL wasn’t finished writing after 7 months (BAD)
11. There wasn’t a strong core theme in the game
12. They were separate a lot
13. I had trouble giving experience on a serious basis (another reason to use a premade, 200 every 4 hours makes sense)
14. I argued with one particular player who was a VERY experienced DM and was actually pretty horrible to him (not good)
15. I wrote scenes that only paladins could get out of
16. I REWOUND the GAME TWICE (due to impracticalities and BAD, BAD DMing
17. I reworked the story every week (it felt like this)
18. We had sessions where nothing happened because I wasn’t pushing the game on
19. Oh, and I hate Shopping. How are they supposed to do that? Inquiry finds them a shop, and then they just remember where it is and keep going back there! They never need an inquiry test ever again!

Those points will do for now. It’s like a DM 101: how not to mess up storyboard, isn’t it?

I've re-written a chunk of it, if you'd like to see the changes, I can put it on google documents?

Please do

usually what I do after a session is completed is write down the barebones of their current situation, followed by what that led to. other than that, i just keep an overarching idea in mind, and the rest I do by the seat of my pants.

Angel of Death said:

see link: docs.google.com/document/d/1hCUW2bYL5L5f_msJQoBbZgXlKdnUujVL2upSUQqVHYc/edit

Sections in Red are what's changed from issue 1; Please forgive the grammar because it's rough, I am planning to up-issue it further.

Many thanks for your time,
Regards

Stealer

Lord Sector Hax said:

I haven't trained my pants to fly a Gun Cutter just yet, lacking the all-important Glavian Experience. Of course, I'd love to be able to make-up on the fly though and I hope to get to that point one day.

What did you think of issue 2, Lord Hax?

Jeans_Stealer said:

I like it, the 1st part is well fleshed out, and the 2nd open enough that the PC can go anywhere, Think the Base assault needs a bit more, and The Island.. need more

Angel of Death said:

Angel,

Cheers, I will look into putting more into the Base in section 4 and section 5 - The 'gaps' though are about as big as in 'edge of darkness' and I could see a DM having no problem filling the gaps though, so is it good to go as is, or is it missing anything specific?

What does everyone else think?

Has anyone got anything further to add to this post? The latest issue is on the googlemail link - I'm thinking it's ready to run but I'm sure there are people out there that may say otherwise.

Thanks in advance for all your help,

Stealer