Jaszczurr said:

For now I've never seen one in a tournament!

Anyway, thanks for info, I'm going to test your deck against my rush and my rianimator!

Please, NEW FAQS!!

Stop whining about new FAQ a restrict Empire more Empire cards. It won't work.

I'm not whining, it's more an invoke to FFG designers, to avoid me to sell the entire collection of cards.

Derricksburg Forge has to be restricted, not because Empire is overpowered (some people still can't believe it), but because it's good enough to be played in EVERY order deck, as said Jaszczur, winner at Stahleck, who himself had it in a dwarf deck. Worse still Derricksburg Forge enables Rodrik's Raiders/Church of Simgar/Iron Discipline package. It's the same madness as with Minning Tunnels+Demolition. Forge should be swapped with Soul Stealer, I don't know how it ended there in the first place. Wilhelm could be unrestricted, mailny because Friedrich is so much better... Maybe exchange of places, but I would be happy with just Derricksburg Forge.

In this case it is also necessary to restrict the sorcerer, because I see it in all destruction (not rush) decks. Adittionally in fact, in my group we play two months without winning a single game to a deck with have the sorcerer and the new quest in the first 7 cards (yes, 100% of wins in these cases and are not casual players)

I run an orc control deck and I dropped sorceror, because it was slowing me down, as I have no other ways to do direct damage to units. So do Dark Elves. He's very good but mainly in Chaos Decks, imho. Yesterday I bet chaos deck with 3 SoT and 3 quests quite easily. He either gets Lobber Crew'ed or Easy Picked... Also do your not casual players play only chaos? Because he can't do **** to empire, blocked by either Church of Sigmar or Iron Discipline. Also I don't know what we're talking about here anymore, Stahleck was won by order non-imperial deck with Derricksburgs, which beat "italian empires" of course also with Derricksburgs. Not by omg non-chaos sorceror fuelled deck. It's like: "VTHC is ruining meta worldwide. We should ban it." And you say: "No one in my area plays it, but we loose a lot to Offering to Hekatri, ban it also, or there's no way you can ban VTHC." Conclusion: you're either trolling or an imperial player yourself

As I said in more than one occasion only give my opinion. You say that you can easily beat chaos decks with sorcerers. well I say I can beat the imperial decks. Both are only opinions. then if you say I am trolling because i think different to you, i could say that you are a fascist because you attack me for think different. Better to be a troll than a fascist. Think as you wish...

New faqs out.

Rodrik and Forge restricted.

Obviously we weren't right.

Second petition, second time FFG recognizes its mistakes and make the game better.

NOW, Warhammer Invasion is back. No more mistakes and in a couple of months will see 4-5 races tournaments.

Thank you, FFG.

DB

Vamosamorir said:

It turned out that the FFG is the biggest, fasciest troll of us all. And god bless them for that. Not only Derricksburg, but also Rodrik. I can die happily

And so is my right to stop spending money on a game where what matters is what think 4 people in a forum. More when the empire did not win a single major tournament in the last 6 months (and remember that the european winner plays a anti-chaos/DE deck, not anti empire). What will happen now if other faction (supposedly) dominates the game easily? More restrictions / ban list? ... we'll see.

Vamosamorir said:

Not anti-chaos/DE but just strong overall deck. It is just that current meta in my city is rather pro-Destruction.

Overall good restrictions (I'm still not sure about Rodrick, but I'm very happy with this too ).

I give 2-3 months untill people start to whine about DE decks being overpowered and Offering of Hekatri banned/restricted (some of you might not know it, but this "overpowered" Empire was the last defence against DE). It will be fun time to see all the same faces (I'm looking at you DB.Cooper ) whine about overpowered DE, and "who gets the first tokens on Hekatri wins"

Jaszczur

Vamosamorir said:

The polish deck wasn't build against a "single" deck. But, the fact is that our empire deck is the one who suffered the most against it. Not intentionally, maybe, but actually effective against the strongest version of empire.

Actually, suffers many decks, especially now that people understood it.

Don't think empire is "dead": it's just different and less effective (and that's good). Now you've to choose: control vs speed.

And, let me add, noone deserves to be called "4 people". We're players, everyone of us (me, you and every other user) and FFG has a brain itself: when they wanted to change stuff without listening, they did, because they thought it was right (I don't care if it didn't...It's just an example of their balance).

Now: they admitted an OBVIOUS mistake, banned VTHC and restricted the two main problems of Empire (too bad Verena is still out).

Anyway, it's a move based on the experience of players and that's the best thing a game company can do.

DB

I said that this game always have a dominant deck, but restrict are not the solution for me. I spend more than 500€ in WI, and as empire player i return (as ever) to Verena decks, because is the only option to win now (rush, unsumons and control empire decks are not competitive with this faqs). 2 years and 500€ to play the same deck (sure i change some cards, but the same verena deck at the end) that with de basic core... This is the mistake for me. I´d prefer the designers create new cards to rebalance the game, not impeding a empire all other optinos (i still believe Taal is not competitive).

And i believe that with this action, we'll see new "formal petitions" in a few months...(DE and Chaos surely). then i`ll think, restrict are not a solution to a LCG. We'll see

Virgo said:

Vamosamorir said:

Well well well. The cat is out of the bag.

To Virgo:

What are you telling.... I always, since first post said that iam a empire player. I never hide it. But also were a empire player when orc-skaven rush, or dwarf or each other of the dominant decks beat easily to empire. And then i dont run to this forum crying because i cant win a tournament with my faction... I say dont restric cards (empire or other factions), rebalance the game with NEW CARDS. Perhaps you dont understand me.

Sorry, your response about me being fascist seemed as if my point wasn't right, but I just guessed your motivations right

I clearly understand what you're talking about. I just don't see, how printing more broken cards to balance those that are already out, is gonna help this game.

Virgo said:

People like you killed this game, you have that you want, empire restriction (3 card limitation and 1 forbbiden), i think this game is made for destruction deck, order can't win a tournament without a new restriction. What a shame!! i will not buy WI anymore.

I think is possible rebalance the game with new cards, but not necessary broken cards. Is only necessary to correct deviations, If the problem is rodrik raiders, why not give a neutral support cost 2 and 1 P with the continue effect like this: "This support cannot be targeted by cards effects". If the great econnomy of empire is a problem, design a new destruction tactict that reduce the power of a Support during x turns (for example). This cards can rebalance the game and are not Broken Cards, probably can change the meta of the game and dissapear of the decks when the game dont need them . Sure if all think about can give to the designers more ideas, like tactics with two different option to play (there are not in this game). A less powerful and easily usable, and one more powerful but that only affects a certain meta type.

bruce_wayne said:

Vamosamorir said:

As I suspected you suggest cards especially designed to counter broken cards. So if anyone would play them, people would ditch those overpowered problematic cards. Then, when they are not needed, people would also remove them from their decks. Then pepole would again play those overpowered cards... As you can see this won't work. Why design anti-cards that would only counter specific cards? This game doesn't need more "auto includes" in decks such as: warpstone excavation, contested village, etc.

All in all it's like with every game. When new patch comes out fixing the balance people who themselves were exploitnig strongest faction whine, while others rejoice in prospect of more even gameplay.

Ah, ok...Because the game was good when Empire destroyed evrything uh?

The game now is balanced and Empire far from death (let's wait and see). Destruction has 2 main decks: Caos and Orc Rush. Order has 2 main decks: Dwarf and Empire Verena (it's still there).

Then, there are elves, definitely coming out.

I don't see any damage to the game.

The fault is not ours: I think the exact opposite. I think that the players who kill the game are the ones who think that 2 tournaments demonstrate something that didn't even existed. Empire was still the best deck: european championship just demonstrates the ONLY weak point of empire (but still a balanced game with no restrictions to the empire side) and that polish meta is one of the best metas in the worlds...and worlds doesn't demonstrate anything, with all due respect.

If you think that "major tournaments" (major by what? Number? National championship hosted the same number of players in 2-3 countries? That were minor tournaments?) are the only way to judge a game, you're wrong.

I think everyone has a pretty good opinion about the game, but the idea of judging a game by 3 tournaments in a year it's pretty weird.

Cheers

DB

bruce_wayne said:

"This game doesn't need more "auto includes" in decks such as: warpstone excavation, contested village, etc."

Indeed, Contested Village should have been restricted instead of Forge...

What is the best way for ... Does your opinion?. Because I think there is no unanimity, as to say that was what everyone wanted. You say that the empire is not dead. For me to play again and again the same strategy (Verena, a card from the basic core) makes me seriously rethink playing a game for almost 2 years, spending more than € 500 to play always the same-> Verena.

I dont say to design cards only against specific meta, but yes affecting him. As an example proposed dual purpose cards. The existence of bench would be another possibility to study for me. But does not matter. Within a month I will ask a list of competitive empire deck. We'll see who can give me and how it works. Then we talk again, and see if new cards must join restricted list

The restriction of both Derricksburg and Rodriks will have little to no effect due to at least TWO new fast economy cards in the current cycle.

You could simply replace Derricksburg with Sons of Coin and/or Imperial Zoo... same problem will exist with the Empire until the next FAQ comes out, which will undoubtedly restrict those cards... ad infinitum.

On a side note, the bigger problem seems to be there is a lack of sufficient playtesting before they're finalised and hit the printers.

Today we test order decks (empire and dawrves) with the new faq versus Chaos. I win 10 games with chaos, one after another, not a single defeat. And without being a great chaos specialist. FFG has already taken a decision. But now do not want to discuss, only search new alternatives and find a new equilibrium. So I accept any suggestion or starting point for creating a new imperial deck. Thank you very much to all who collaborates. Its a friendly challenge for those with which both have discussed (in a good sense of the word).