I am aware that this filthy example of xeno-tech is soon to be published in Hostile Acquisitions (RT) but I find myself in need of weapon stats. One of my players has one and the intention to use it....

I would preffer to have something approximating "official" stats if for no other reason than to avoid future "retcons" to wargear that has already been used. Anyone in the know as to what we can expect from this elegant implement of doom.... Er.. I mean blasphemous antique that probably will break anyways?

On a similar note, the Shuriken Pistol ceases being utter CRAP if you change the base damage to 1D10+4 and leave the other stats alone (RT, Creatures Anathema).

Well, if we can extrapolate from the autogun-stubber comparison and what little is known from the tabletop, my idea would be something like:

Class: heavy (exotic)

Range: 110 M (around same as heavy stubber, 24 inches in TT, one idea longer range than the basic weapon version)

RoF: -/-/10 (heavy stubber/bolter RoF)

Damage: 2d10+4 R (notably more than catapult (S6 rather than 4 on TT, can insta-kill human-like targets; perhaps the damage can be upped in DW where bolt weapons have also been buffed)

Pen: Not quite sure here, I'd go with 6 (same as avenger catapult)

Clip: 300 (keeping up with the large clip of eldar guns)

Rules: Reliable (high-quality manufacture, most will not function as reliable in the hands of non-Eldar), Tearing; consider the "storm" rule if you reduce any of the other stats or want it to be a threat in Ascention/Deathwatch

Weight: 10+ KG (it's a vehicle- or platform-mounted gun for the eldar)

Cost: likely over 15K Thrones, but almost impossible to buy with money alone.

Availability: Very Rare or lower.

By the way, there will likely be an option for a grav-suspended platform, not unlike the ones in Deathwatch, which is how shuriken cannons and other eldar heavy guns end up in their guardian squads. Of course, it will be expensive and rare in Imperial space .

The_Shaman said:

Try "unavailable". you might get one from the battlefield or steal it from an eldar base, but A) they don't trade with humans, except for rare and powerful eldar artefacts and B) the Adeptus Mechanicus would hunt down and ... inconvenience those who wilfully carry and use heretical technology.

"Unavailable" is a relative term, especially considering that Acolytes work for the inquisition - the organization which has a remit to investigate and deal with what is forbidden. While such equipment would be extremely rare, it certainly can be found in various Imperial facilities - Ordo Xenos storehouses or research facilities, some AdMech labs (yes, other AdMech might call them hereteks - if they find out), maybe even an Imperial Guard storehouse or a private collection.

In this case one of my players is playtesting an Eldar Ranger character (something I have been working on using RT rules after an epic Ascension/Deathwatch crossover storyline was run for the group by our DW GM). I have stats for all the other gear that the character has (typical Ranger kit for the most part) but she brought a suspensor-rigged Shuriken Cannon back from the warzone for those "subtlety is done" moments that sometimes break out.

I personally would include the Razor Sharp weapon trait (from DW) if I was generating Eldar shuriken weapon stats for FFG, but applying it to the existing Shuriken Pistol/Shuriken Catapult/Avenger Catapult stats is beyond broken (IGNORES Astartes artificer armour on a marginally adequate shot...). It should perform aproximately the same as a heavy bolter in terms of the carnage it produces, but obviously will get to the bloody mess in an entirely different fashion.

I'm guessing something in the ballpark of: 200m -/-/10 1D10+10 R AP6 Reliable

Alternately I suppose you could use ROF -/-/5 and add the Storm quality, but that makes it easier to dodge a shuriken cannon than a heavy bolter, which is just silly.

I'd lower the range somewhat and add tearing, but other than that it could work.

The_Shaman said:

The pistol and both versions of the catapult lack tearing, so I was going for consistency with existing published material. Adding tearing makes the damage in my above post a little bit too high, but not massively so (About -2 or -3 to damage to add tearing, otherwise the non-Astartes heavy bolter would be junk by comparison). The range is factoring in fluff and older editions of the TT game when Eldar weapons were not the utter CRAP that they became in 4th/5th edition while (hopefully) avoiding "fanboy excess". Consider that shuriken weapons fire ammunition that is literally a few molecules thick with a gravitic impeller and the shuriken cannon easily has a 3m barrel based on Death Jester and Dark Reaper mineatures. That is by the most conservative estimates still going to go farther than a Space Marine can throw a grenade....

Reality check numbers (*GASP!*): A 200m range gives the weapon an 800m maximum range in DH. An M16A2 rifle can effectively engage targets at a bit over 600m over iron sights in semi-auto fire mode by propelling a chunk of jacketed lead down a snug chrome barrel less than 1m long by means of a confinded gunpowder explosion (fyceline in the 40k universe). By comparison, the generic autogun in DH has a 100m range (400m max) which is somewhere between the effective range of the M16A1 and AK47 rifles. The M2 .50 cal machinegun has an effective range of about 2.5 MILES! It would seem reasonable to expect the eldar "heavy machinegun" to be able to manage aproximately 1/5th the distance of an M2 without hurting the brain, especially since you don't have barrel friction in the shuriken weapons slowing things down any (minimal moving parts and repulsor-tech propulsion means the ammo never touches the barrel!)

And yes, I know reality has a limited place in 40k... I just try to avoid making non-orky things TOO silly!

ZillaPrime said:

If memory serves, the version of the Splinter Pistol listed in the Eldar Harlequin profile in Black Crusade has a Pen of 4 and Razor Sharp instead of a straight Pen 6. That seems like a fairly easy alteration to make across the board

N0-1_H3r3 said:

That still has a halfway decent shot ignoring heavy power armour (AP8, 3+ TT equiv) while the Godwyn Pattern (Astartes) boltgun can only cut through Guard Flak (AP4, 5+ TT equiv). While that is about right for a bolter, a shuriken catapult should deliver fairly comparable performance instead of magically becoming a "low damage Krak missile" with full-auto. I can live with a flat Pen 6 comparing to Pen 4 tearing, since the math works out about the same. Dropping down to Pen 3 & Razor Sharp is not the answer either, as that is fundamentally inferior to the original stats and Eldar weapons do not need yet another nerf. Ultimately, the stat line I am aiming for should reflect a refined and elegant rival to the heavy bolter. Eldar wargear is proving to be a serious pain in the butt to stat properly.

ZillaPrime said:

One thing worth remembering is that shuriken weapons were, once upon a time, superior at penetrating armour to bolters. Back in 2nd edition, the bolter had a -1 save modifier (sufficient to ignore flak armour, which was only a 6+ save at the time), while the shuriken catapult had a -2 (sufficient to make power armour look like mesh). That in mind, having shuriken weapons be lower-damage but higher-pen and higher-RoF than the comparable bolt weapon seems entirely in keeping with that.

I'm not sure if "lower-damage but higher-pen and higher-RoF" is the right way to approach the shuriken cannon though, since as far back as I know it has been more damaging than the heavy bolter (S6 vs S5); and over 10 shots per full auto burst is practically pointless from mechanical perspective (how many extra hits can you get with a d100 roll?). Also, since bolters and the avenger shuriken catapult (as per Creatures Anathema) are tearing, I see no particular problem with the shuriken cannon being tearing as well (not sure what you have, Zilla, my CA pdf has the avenger catapult as tearing).

It's meant to be very powerful. On the tabletop, it is more damaging than the space marines' heavy bolter - and it doesn't have access to all those fancy ammunition. If we go strictly by TT, I could imagine its AP being a bit lower (AP 5 = roughly equivalent to AP 4 in DH), but other than that it definitely shouldn't be inferior to a heavy bolter in anything except possibly range. Just as a comparison, other S6 weapons like the multilaser or the assault cannon have 3d10+x damage with medium AP.

Sorry My inquisitor is just extreme puritan- makes it hard to get the good stuff