I've just bought Twilight Imperium (and Shattered Empire for that matter), and I was wondering whether the quality of the game mechanics (or of any other aspect of the game) varies significantly with the number of players? Given that I associate only with very busy and important people, I might struggle to find six players willing to give up most of a day on a regular basis....

Cheers

Game times and mechanics definitely vary with the number of players. Generally, the more players, the longer the game will last. Mechanics-wise, if you play with only 3 or 4, each player gets to choose two strategy cards, which changes the game significantly. In addition, there are different dynamics to take into account when playing with each potential number of players (3, 4, 5, 6, or even 7 or 8 with the expansion.) I enjoy playing with all numbers of players because variety fun, but if I had to choose my favorite number, I think it would be 4. However, as I'm sure later posts to this topic will reveal, each person might have a different opinion about the "ideal" number of players. My advice: don't be scared to try a 4- or even 3-player game!

The most significant playability difference i've noticed is in games where there are NOT 4 or 8 people.

(Ok so i've never actually played an 8 person game but i think this point is still valid)

In games with this many players you can count on every strategy card being played every game turn. With other player counts, strategies you may want to have happen every turn (Trade, Technology, Production come to mind) may not even be chosen. I don't think its a bad change but its a significant difference.

Other things i've noticed:

Trade becomes much more desireable with more people because you can attack your neighbors and not break trade contracts (if you make trade agreements correctly)

4th ring. If you have the expansion and you play a 7-8 person game with the 4th ring (or a 5-6 person game with the 4th ring even) i've noticed that the increase in available resrouces will have a significant effect on the game. (Bigger fleets, more tech, etc.)

In my opinion the game is ideal with either 6 or 8 people. Any odd number, except 3, imbalances the board in some way. The compensation for this according to the rules is TG's, which doesn't work. My FTF group basically scraps games if they are either 5 or 7 players. That being said, I hate 4 player games because of the aformentioned concept of every strat card being used every round. All games below 5 are really tricky because from my experience the game degenerates into a very complex version of risk. Politics & Trade, two of the big additions over a normal "war game" are reduced to almost nothing. Also, it tends to lead to turtling because if any one person makes a grab for something juicy, the others will more than likely crush them.

One my best friends and I are working on a two-player version. It's not perfect, and tends to be mostly practicing for the big games (trying out new races, new strategies, different variants), but I've still found it to be very fun.

I personally won't play with less than 4 players again and would play with 5-8.

There is a 5 player preset map using wormholes to make the board setup even, however I don't like this and use this thing

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/211820

when we play with 5. It means you can still have wormholes and use wormhole related cards. There may be something similar you could work out for a 7 player game.

Psyco said:

What he said.....

Its actually fundementaly a common flaw of Hex based board games in which 'tiles' are used, especially where positioning is such an important part of the game.

I would only add that 4 & 8 player games also take away a lot from the strategy as mentioned because while the board is even the game just doesn't play the same when you know every strategy card is definitly going to be taken. I think a big part of the strategy phase is trying to figuire out how you are going to play your next turn, how everyone else will and what cards may or may not be left behind. Given that strategy cards are so critical it can be a grueling endevour which creates a nescessity for very complex tactical, strategic and political decesion making complex is a great thing in a strategy game.

What it boils down to is that 6 player games are the best and everything else is kind of .... less...

With all that said however I rarely pass up the oppertunity to play a game of Twilight Imperium and while 4,5, 7 and 8 player games aren't ideal like a 6 player game, its still pretty fun.

In my group we use that house rule to change the 5 players setting:

We change the player 4 starting area one hex north, so 4 of the 5 players have 1 neighbor at 2 Hex and one at 3.

Then all players except the number 2 get 1TG.

It is not the best solution but a good compromise.

Another solution is to take of a pie piece from the Map and have hexes be adjacent throught it.

You can use arrows on the table to make more clear which hexes connect to which other.

Cool. Thanks for all the answers.

What do people think of games with 3 players (those, presumably, being the easiest to arrange if you haven't got a set gaing group)?

oldthrashbarg said:

We were at first quite sceptical about 3 player games, but we've played two of those, and it worked real swell. Lots of action, no downtime, interesting dynamics in how you have to balance the two other players out against each other.

When playing with the expansion, we tried to avoid five player games, because no-one would pick Buraucracy (Strat card from the expansion) which slowed down the game considerably. (Of course, now we've replaced Buraucracy and Assembly with houseruled cards anyway, so that isn't a problem anymore)

I don't see why no player would take Bureaucracy because it is the way to get ahead in Victory points or to be able to catch the Leader.

Furthermore, once you get to the point 1 Stage 2 objective can be drawned with the last stage one, the Leader has 20% chances to win the game outright just by taking Bureaucracy and getting the Imperium Rex card.

Once the Stage 2 begin to show every players has to take Bureaucracy to denie the card to the current Leader or loose without winenning rights.

Ugluk said:

Agreed, although I would go even further and say that the Bureaucracy card has even greater importance then trying to draw Imperium Rex or blocking someone elses win (this is certainly part of it). It's pretty common reasoning that since the Bureaucracy primary does not actually 'give' you anything like production, trade, technology etc.. where you get something physical you can use (production, trade goods or technology) as example, that the card is not as useful. I think this is a mistake, the combination of the possibility of scoring on two objectives in one round and the knowledge you get of upcoming objectives (and the control over it) is an enormous advantage. Far greater then most people give it credit for. It is a card with a considerably larger scope in terms of your strategy, another words you might not see the benefit right away, but think of it in terms of comperative value. After all there are many things you can do to improve your chances of winning throughout the game, but none are as direct as getting victory points. I mean given the opertunity to get any single thing in any round vs. the oppertunity to score an extra point, there is no question the victory point should win every time.

The game is always all about victory points, if you are not playing it this way (which is not that uncommon actually) then you are not playing to win, but rather playing to play. Which arguably is fine, I mean I know plenty of people who play the game more for its political or social aspect then its strategic aspect. None the less, if we are speaking about the game from a 'I want to win, whats the best approach' style ideology then the importance of knowing when to take Bureaucracy cannot be stressed enough. It is definitly a big part of a winning strategy.

I would love nothing more then a game where no one takes Bureaucracy and leaves it for me each round as an option, I can with great confidence tell you that my win ratio would increase 100% in a group like that.