Five Rules Questions

By Alexander West, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

1) The player who wins initiative assigns the first player. Plots are then resolved clockwise from the first player, correct?

2) If a character loses a trait, what are the consequences? (Example: Old Nan removes the Maester trait from a character with an Iron Link.) Furthermore, with the errata on the Maester's Path, can removing the Maester trait prevent the attachment from being equipped to the Maester?

3) If an ongoing effect (like Dragon Attack or Threat from the North) causes a character to be killed or discarded, and they are saved, would they just die or be discarded again?

4) Can the Lion's Gate choose a card with no power on it? I have been a little confused by a few responses on here that say a character can be knelt if it is already kneeling, unless the card requires a standing character be knelt. However if it is part of a cost, if it wasn't paid it can't pay for something.

5) I read on here that whenever you search your deck you must reveal the card. Is this true of something like At the Gates? If so, can you use the Weasel's Way to discard the Maester found with At the Gates?

Thanks!

1. The person who wins initiative chooses the first player, the first player then chooses what order the plots resolve in (when revealed plot effects), for plots with passive / constant effects they are activated immediately upon revealing.

2. I think if a maester loses the maester trait any chains on them would fall off. However, if a printed maester also has apprentice collar they have essentially 2 maester traits and only one is removed, hence they are still a maester. I'm not 100% sure on this though and I suggest you wait for ktom or someone to answer this.

3. Threat from the North has the "cannot be saved" text, so you can't save against its effects period. For "terminal" effects that say -X STR and killed if STR is 0, saves cannot be used unless they increase the characters STR above 0 or they move the character to your hand and out of the terminal effect.

4. I want to say you can't use Lion's Gate on a character without power on it. If you can, that's stupid and the rules of this game are stupid. (i.e. kneeling knelt characters and all the other foolishness)

5. At the Gates puts the card in play, so yeah, you have to reveal it when you put it into play. I didn't read anywhere in the FAQ that you have to show the card when you search for it, most search cards explicitly state you have to reveal it, but some don't like Red Warlock.

Stasis said:

for plots with passive / constant effects they are activated immediately upon revealing.

That is only true for plots with constant effects. Passive abilities resolve at the appropriate time (in step 4 of whatever action window their triggering condition is met).

1) See Stasis's answer. The First Player determines the order in which "when revealed" effects are resolved.

2) Play restrictions on attachments must always be met. Anytime it is not met, the attachment is discarded.

3) See Stasis's answer, and for further clarification the FAQ entry on terminal effects.

4) Yes, you can choose a card with no power on it. But any "then" effect is dependent on the success of what precedes it. So if you choose a character with no power on it, you cannot successfully discard that power, so you may not give that a card a trait.

5) Even though Stasis didn't find it, it is indeed said in the FAQ that whenever you search your deck for a specific type of card, you need to reveal that card to your opponent to verify that it falls under the search parameters (it's in the actual FAQ section of the FAQ). Since that's all we have to go on, it should apply to a card searched for with At The Gates, even though that card is put into play immediately.

Saturnine said:

5) Even though Stasis didn't find it, it is indeed said in the FAQ that whenever you search your deck for a specific type of card, you need to reveal that card to your opponent to verify that it falls under the search parameters (it's in the actual FAQ section of the FAQ). Since that's all we have to go on, it should apply to a card searched for with At The Gates, even though that card is put into play immediately.

ktom said:

Putting the card directly into play takes the place of revealing it for verification of a legal search. As such, it is not "revealed" for the purposes of cards like Weasel's Way or Grand Maester Pycelle.

I agree that this makes sense (and I would have worded it in the FAQ accordingly, if it were up to me), but as far as I know, that blurb in the FAQ is the only thing to go on, and there no distinctions are made with regard to the destination of a card found by a search effect. So in my mind, it should apply regardless of whether the card will be a known entity anyway because it'll be put in play. Or is there something I'm missing?

Although it might deserve some clarification as pointed by Saturnine, I seems pretty safe to me to adopt ktom's ruling.

As a matter of fact the FAQ statement :

"how do I verify that that player is pulling
the appropriate category of card from his or
her deck?"

makes it pretty clear that it does not apply when the card is put into play.