This first one spawned a huge argument

The Xxcha flagship says that it may be fired as if it were a PDS with the deep space cannon upgrade. This is clarified in the FAQ to state the flagship does not gain any bonuses due to PDS research. However, there are other effects outside of PDS research options that can affect it, such as maneuvering jets. Is the flagship also unable to be affected by these? Or does maneuvering jets still give the bonus to avoid PDS, since the buff is actually being applied to the targeted fleet?

Second...the FAQ says that there are several things that mechanized units cannot be affected by. It even says bombardment doesn't work...apparently a tank can't be taken out with the cannons on a dreadnought or war sun. We however ran into a few oddball situations.

Player lands on a planet with 2 ground forces and a mechanized unit. Distant sun token reveals a hostage situation. Which of the following would happen?

He has to pay up 3 trade goods, and loses everything if he can't pay.

He has to pay up 2 trade goods, the tank is immune so it still lands and takes the planet even if he can't pay

He has to pay up 2 trade goods, the tank is immune and doesn't get destroyed, but still gets sent back to the carrier.

The presence of the tank negates the hostage situation entirely.

In another scenario, a distant sun token revealed a PDS installation, the one that fires on you twice as you try to land. The situation was that there was only one ship, the carrier, in system. One of the dice came up as a hit, which says that you lose one invading ground unit and one ship. Which of the following would happen?

The mechanized unit is destroyed, since despite it being immune to the distand sun token, its carrier just got blown up.

The mechanized unit would still complete the landing, even though the carrier was blown up.

Bowoodstock said:

This is a tough call. The intent is probably that the flagship has a really big gun, which is not a PDS at all, and that the phrase "as if it were a PDS with DSC" was just a shorthand to let you know the hit value and range. So no, Maneuvering Jets won't help because it's not actually a PDS shot. Of course, proponents of the other position could just as easily argue that maneuvering jets which help a ship avoid incoming PDS fire could just as easily help them avoid incoming flagship fire by similar principles. Which is the crux of the issue.

Incidentally, this is the sort of shorthand that FFG's rules writers are notorious for. If they want to use a comparison to a PDS shot, they should just rule that it's a PDS shot in all respects, but instead they compare it to a PDS and then backpeddle and say "except it's not like a PDS at all otherwise." Leaving a big, gaping hole concerning what "otherwise" means. When I get aorund picking up Shards, I suspect I'm going to be writing a lot of house rules to untangle messes like this. One of those will be "the Xxcha flagship has a PDS on board." I don't think ONE mobile PDS will break the game, and it simplifies a lot of these sorts of issues.

Bowoodstock said:

Working with the FAQ ruling, I think the answer would be #2. Failing to pay will lose the GFs but the tank still takes the planet. Thematically it doesn't make a lot of sense, but then, last time I checked a GF represents a platoon (or so) of troops, and allowing the ability for two entire platoons of soliders to be taken hostage is somewhat pathetic, thematically. It would really involve a coordinate effort from a large section of the planet's native population, and in a situation like that, a tank could just as easily be taken out as well.

Bowoodstock said:

Again, strictly speaking, I believe the Mech would complete the landing. The effect says you lose a GF and in this situation you have no GF to lose. Had you landed on this planet with 3 GF you would definitely take the planet even if 2 of them bit it on the way down, the fact that most players don't invade neutral planets with more than 2 GF at a time (usually) and therefore this token causes you to lose the landing attempt if it rolls well enough is beside the point.

Ugh, messy.

As for the second one, the issue isn't whether or not the mech unit gets hit, we figured that didn't happen. The issue is, does it even get to complete the landing in the first place since the carrier it was on got blown to bits in the same hit that didn't affect the mech unit.

Pay 2 or lose 2 GF tank takes the planet

PDS - either make it affected by techs or not, personally I will make mine affected by all techs for PDSs - makes it easier for combining shots and not a game breaker

Your ship is destroyed so everything is destroyed (since it is the only ship and space combat happens before ground)

the Mech question is in the FAQ...(domain counters)

Q: How do Mechanized Units work in regards to cards and
abilities referring to Ground Forces?
A: Mechanized Units are treated as Ground Forces in regards
to controlling planets only, this includes cards and effects
which would revert a planet to neutral if no Ground Forces
are present. They participate in invasion combat but are
immune to all abilities that refer to Ground Forces, such as
Action Cards, technologies, Domain Counters, bombardments,
PDS fire, and Leaders.

ryolacap said:

Yes, but the ADS domain counter doesn't fire in the space combat step (or even the PDS fire step.) It fires when it is first revealed, in the Planetary Landings step. At this point, any plastic that's coming down has already been declared, so as long as it's immune to the ADS fire, I see no reason why it should fail to land, regardless of what happens to the carrier it was previously on.

so is that the same if you reveal fighters and it destroys the ship?

That right there is the reason I think that if the carrier goes splode, you lose the tank. If fighters take out your carrier, you lose your invasion, otherwise how would they hang around afterwards until destroyed?

Bowoodstock said:

Yes I see no reason they would parcel the rules as such. Space happens before ground. And PDS would happen way before both. Since you can't know the PDS is there until the token is flipped does not make it less of a PDS. I would say fall back on the basics when making ruling like this.