Hey,

got two quesions that I hope you can help me with.

1) In the Inquisitor's Handbook, the shields are mentioned as being able to serve as cover and give an AP value if used so. I can't seem to find similar rules for the shield in the core book (looking under the shield's own entrance). Help?

2) I've seen mention on this forums when browsing through it that pistols in close combat can only be fired on single shot. I can't find such a rule in the core book or the errata I have downloaded. Am I looking in thw wrong place?

Apologies if these questions have already been asked, I am new to the forums.

JacobKlunder said:

Hm, perhaps that was a mistake as I can't seem to find mention of it. Now that I think about it, such a rule would make little sense as what's stopping me from firing a full auto pistol in melee?

Hmm very odd, I dont see it in the errata either and I know Ive seen it before. Perhaps it was an official post on the old boards.

Mark It Zero said:

The only thing I can thing of is the chance of hitting any allies involved in the same melee. *G*

Covered in another thread. Full Auto is a full action and firing in close combat is a half action.

Letrii said:

Right so are you saying this game mechanic is the only thing stopping me from pulling a trigger in melee (a trigger that just so happens to unleash 10 bullets when squeezed?) If so that's an easily flexible area of the rules.

Okay, so I have found the pistol discussion thread. Shields, anyone? Since our Arbitrator's gonna buy one, I need to make a ruling on this soonest. *G*

In the Inquisitors handbook I think it specifes that those shields are large and sturdy enough to count as cover where as the one in the main book is a smaller sheild that is only useful in melee combat.

As a house rule I have that a character can make multiple melee attacks with a pistol up to a maximum of its semi auto rate of fire (if you swift attack, lightning attack etc). Single shot pistols can only be used to make one melee attack once in a turn.

JacobKlunder said:

Hmm...well there are some unofficial houserules on shields here www.darkreign40k.com/weapons-and-armour/rules-for-shield.html

They aren't perfect but they might be of use...

If you're using a shield as cover, does that mean it can be damaged/destroyed by the same rules for cover?

I don't see any reason why not. Makes sense, no?

Letrii said:

Letrii said:

OK, this is basically an autopistol.

uk.youtube.com/watch

So why is an autopistol limited to single shot in melee?

Did you see the concentration it took to aim those glocks and keep them on target? Can you imagine having to do that while I'm swinging a chain sword at you and you're trying to block with a shield. Combat is not a slow, I swing then you swing kind of thing. If you tried squeezing off a full auto burst in melee you MIGHT get a single bullet on target before spraying the rest of the clip into empty air, or the rest of the group. If you were lucky you might be able to hold onto the gun, but most likely you'll be so distracted firing it that you'll either drop it in order to block my next stroke or forget to duck.

If I were your GM I would say this:

Make your roll for full auto (ignoring the normal +to hit bonuses for full auto) as a half action. This roll is now difficult -10. Make a hard -20 agility test to keep the gun on target. If failed allocate any shots after the first to a random (my pick) target or targets behind your original target. If you succeed on the agility test, your shots hit your first target as normal. Your target gains a +10 bonus to hit you for the rest of the round as you are concetrating on holding onto your weapon. Each two degrees of success lowers this bonus by +5 to a maximum of +0. If you fail by 1 or 2 degrees, you drop your weapon. If you fail by 3 or more, you fumble with your weapon, dropping your guard and you count as stunned until the end of the next round. Regardless of the outcome you are unable to use a reaction for the rest of the round.

So basically you get to do what you want, at a somewhat higher cost. If you roll well, you can pull it off and be as awesome as you hoped you'd be. If you roll poorly you are screwed. I've got no problem with players saying "let me try this, I saw it in a cartoon once but I think I can do it." I just make sure that they know that if they fail....they will wish they'd never tried to do it. Kind of like real life. Also, I leave a bit up to the GM's discretion to keep em nice. I'm not a jerk GM, but I want them to fear the idea of leaving something up to my whim. Especially if they just argued with me about whether they could do it or not.

Guys, guys, GUYS! There's already a thread about pistols in melee. *G* Could we please focus on shields? *S*

JacobKlunder said:

Shields are easy, you pick a body part (head, legs, chest) and then the shield provides an AP value to that location as well as the arm that's holding it. By default a shield protects the body and whichever arm is holding it. As for cover well, determine whether the weapon could actually penetrate the shield, if so use the same rules you would use for penetrating a wall, door or other static cover item.

Errr, could you direct me to the pages of the core book where that's from, because I don't remember reading anything like that. Also, the shield mentioned in the core book has no AP value.

Mark It Zero said:

The problem I have with shields being destroyed through use is they are the only items, barring consumables that can be destroyed through usage (not counting plot or warp related actions either).

Well, I'd say they can only be destroyed when used as cover. Or when parrying a Power weapon.

Letrii said:

JacobKlunder said:

Actually, RAW state that items only get destroyed when a power weapon is the one parrying. It does seem odd to me, but I've asked in the forums before and no one could explain to me why it hasn't been errata'd yet, so we continue to play RAW.

Okay, that's an odd one... *G*

Emprah_Horus said:

Emprah_Horus said:

Look at the rules for damaging cover and shields can be used as cover.

(Some) Shields can be used for cover and to parry with.

If you use the shield for cover, it should be treated like cover and thus can be detroyed. If you use the shield to parry, then it's treated like any other item that can parry. It's up to the player to deside when to use which option.

Well, it would depend on what's going through the shield. A slug from a bullet will leave a hole, but otherwis the shield would be intact. Same with a normal Las shot. When you get into meltas and plasma shots then there probably isn't much left of the shield afterwards.

As for parrying a power weapon, if I were going for realism I'd assign a penalty to parry attempt to avoid getting your weapon chopped in half, but for sake of balance I'm not going to do that. If you catch the weapon right, you can avoid letting it go through (knocking the flat of the blade away, rather than trying to stop the edge cold), I'll leave the penalty for doing that off, myself.

2 words: Power Shield

Storm Shield! *S*

Letrii said: