What does a ship do with psyker children that are born "off the map"?
Are there agents of the inquisition on the ships which can sanction a psyker?
Is there some sort of psyker society which looks to (and eliminates, if necesary) psykers who are born in the far flung reaches of space?
What methods of detecting psykers are available to Rogue Trader captains? What about naval ships?
Ultimately, who is responsible for such things?
I am going to take a guess from a cultural point of view. I am going to assume that the Adeptus Astra Telepathica has agents on the ship in the form of the Astropathic Choir and that part of the duties of the Astropath in Rogue Trader ships is to test and evaluate the potential of children with signs of psyker potential. In the nature of testing I will link you to the story I was writing for my Astropath Transcendent character and it might give you some ideas how this is done on a ship. Hope it helps and you enjoy the nerrative.
If there is an Imperial government on the planet in question, then psykers will be given up to the Black Ships, or executed; I don't think Imperial law allows for any other option. If they are far from Terra, they would most likely be placed in stasis for the years-long trip. That's my guess...
I suspect this is something that will get nailed down in the future. I personally was surprised when Dark Heresy outright stated that ALL psykers were sanctioned on Terra: I knew that all Astropaths went there for the soul binding, and the psykers who were weak but pure either went to power the Astronomicon or were fed the Emperor...but I couldn't see any reason why literally hundreds of billions of mid-level psykers needed to be on Terra for their sanctioning.
Psykers fall into one of five categories:
(1) those to be fed to the Emperor
(2) those who go to power the Astronomicon
(3) those to be turned into Astropaths
(4) Those too dangerous to stay alive
(5) Those fit for sanctioning.
I personally always pictured the process as being:
However, DH proved I was wrong on this score, and that all 5 classes of Psyker go straight to Terra.
I don't like this idea, as in my view it both minimises the importance of the Black Ships (turning them into a sort of psychic ferry service as opposed to a mobile training and filtering facility) and also would serve to make Terra an absolute psychic powderkeg, with vast numbers of psykers being trained on what is already the most crowded planet in the Imperium. I think it would have made more sense for the class 5 psykers to be dropped off at various trainng facilities on the way to Terra, or trained on the Black Ships themselves.
I agree with you, Lightbringer.
Doesn't the fluff describe void ships sometimes going for hundreds of years without making contact with somthing else?
Wouldn't that mean that there HAS to be some manner of dealing with psykers on a "we're on our own" basis?
How often does a RT hook up with a blackship, anyway? Not that often.
To supplement and complement Lightbringer's answer- detecting a psyker is something that can be done in a number of ways, from the primitive (look for weird stuff happening around someone and hope you get there before a daemon/other warp creature); through to the high-tech (detailed gene-scans picking out the presence/strength of a psyker gene-sequence. Unlikely, in that the equipment to do so is bulky, non-portable and wholly the province of the Mechanicus).
The most common method, however, is to have a potential psyker scanned by a documented and sufficiently powerful psyker, preferably a telepath (although a theosophamist or a biomancer would also work)- like an Astropath Transcendant, for example. This is, canonically, the way the IN screens its' new intake for psykers or those warp-tainted, with a member of the ship's 'pathic choir hidden behind a screen as they are marched through for their basic medical, at gunpoint. If the Navy psyker doesn't like what they see then the armsmen send a shotcannon round or twelve through the poor potential.
I should also note that a Navigator, with their Warp Eye, should also be able to see a psyker for a psyker, unless they've learnt how to mask their potential (which is a) rare, I mean really rare; and b) impressive, but with terrifying implications when you stop to think of it).
Of course, any psyker born outside of Imperial space is not technically an Imperial citizen, and hence Imperial Law about what to do when he is discovered to be psychic doesn't technically apply, meaning a Rogue Trader could do whatever they wished with them. They may even find an Imperial institution or agent thereof (say, an Inquisitor or an Arbites Judge) that agrees with them. However, as soon as that psyker is brought into Imperial space it is under the jurisdiction of the Lex Imperialis, and should be turned over to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, preferably via rendezvous with one of the League of Black Ships.
Lightbringer said:
Given that those stable and potent enough to be made into Sanctioned Psykers (rather than Astropaths) are a colossal minority - you're essentially making an exception for a relatively tiny proportion of psykers. Beyond that, I don't actually imagine that the full testing and sanctioning process can occur within the course of a single Black Ship's journey - it takes too long to get a precise definition of a given psyker's ability (determining that someone is a psyker is one thing... determining in excruciating detail how useful they are is another entirely) and test the depths their psyches for flaws and vulnerabilities.
As it stands, the material in the Codex Imperialis described that all those who go to join the Choir of the Astronomicon are randomly chosen from amongst the Primary (Sanctioned Psyker) and Secondary (Astropath) psykers. My own, personal, musings on the subject are that a psyker birth of any kind is approximately a one-in-a-million event each generation. From any given group of newly-tithed psykers, those who are sufficiently potent to be classed as Secondary Psykers or better are roughly one-in-a-million. Of those, maybe 0.1% are stable enough to be Primary Psykers, who will in turn be trained as Sanctioned Psykers (if not selected to join the Astronomicon), while the remaining ones will be Soul Bound and serve out their lives as Astropaths.
Even assuming a Black Ship (cruiser sized vessel, for the sake of argument) can hold a million psykers (potentially more, but all that psy-dampening equipment takes up power and space, as a ship that full of psykers is otherwise a giant target for daemons), that means that maybe one in every thousand Blackship deliveries contains a potential Sanctioned Psyker... making a stop mid-way to drop off one psyker? Doesn't seem worth it.
(As an aside, from those figures and my own estimates of the size of the Imperium, that's still enough for there to be as many psykers produced in a year as there are people on Earth today, with about six and a half thousand Astropaths and about six Sanctioned Psykers forming a part of that number... remember, that's per year).
No, from the perspective of sanctioning individual psykers, it may not be efficient or practical... but from the perspective of dealing with all the psykers in the Imperium, dropping of one-in-a-billion individuals en-route back to Terra seems frankly wasteful.
I really can't see there being just six Sanctioned Pyskers produced a year. The Imperial Guard eats up way more than that. And with those probabilities, Space Marine chapters wouldn't even have Librarians.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
Given that those stable and potent enough to be made into Sanctioned Psykers (rather than Astropaths) are a colossal minority - you're essentially making an exception for a relatively tiny proportion of psykers. Beyond that, I don't actually imagine that the full testing and sanctioning process can occur within the course of a single Black Ship's journey - it takes too long to get a precise definition of a given psyker's ability (determining that someone is a psyker is one thing... determining in excruciating detail how useful they are is another entirely) and test the depths their psyches for flaws and vulnerabilities.
........My own, personal, musings on the subject are that a psyker birth of any kind is approximately a one-in-a-million event each generation. From any given group of newly-tithed psykers, those who are sufficiently potent to be classed as Secondary Psykers or better are roughly one-in-a-million. Of those, maybe 0.1% are stable enough to be Primary Psykers, who will in turn be trained as Sanctioned Psykers (if not selected to join the Astronomicon), while the remaining ones will be Soul Bound and serve out their lives as Astropaths.
Even assuming a Black Ship (cruiser sized vessel, for the sake of argument) can hold a million psykers (potentially more, but all that psy-dampening equipment takes up power and space, as a ship that full of psykers is otherwise a giant target for daemons), that means that maybe one in every thousand Blackship deliveries contains a potential Sanctioned Psyker... making a stop mid-way to drop off one psyker? Doesn't seem worth it.
(As an aside, from those figures and my own estimates of the size of the Imperium, that's still enough for there to be as many psykers produced in a year as there are people on Earth today, with about six and a half thousand Astropaths and about six Sanctioned Psykers forming a part of that number... remember, that's per year).
No, from the perspective of sanctioning individual psykers, it may not be efficient or practical... but from the perspective of dealing with all the psykers in the Imperium, dropping of one-in-a-billion individuals en-route back to Terra seems frankly wasteful.
It's all down to personal interpretation, of course, as there's little canon on the topic of precise numbers, but I personally don't agree with your figures.
My own personal interpretation is that about 1% of the human population is mildly psychic - and by mildly I mean simply more passively open to psychic phenomena rather than possessing an active psychic ability. This is the "background level" of human psychic potential, and this level of ability is not inherently dangerous. I also see this number increasing every year, as humanity gradually transitions into a psychic race.
Within this 1%, about 0.1% of the general population (or one in a thousand of the general human population) has some active psychic potential, usually at the lower and of the scale, but occasionally much higher. This 0.1% of the human population is the general pool from within which the Imperium draws all of its psykers.
Now bear in mind, I am not suggesting that the Imperium is so ruthlessly efficient that it actually manages to get hold of every psyker. I am not suggesting that the Imperium faultlessly sweeps up 0.1% of the human population every time they send a black ship to a world. Realisitically, one imagines that the Imperium is only going to have an efficiency rating of at best 50%, and often far worse.
Within the group of captured psykers, about 25% of the pool of psykers will be actively potentially dangerous - attractive to warp entities in some way, or already tainted. A further 70% of the pool of psykers are relatively pure and untainted, but not strong enough to protect themsevles from warp predators. These are the psykers who go to Terra to be fed to the Emperor.
The remaining 5% of the captured psykers form primary and secondary psykers. I would say primary psykers form about 1% of the overall psyker pool, and secondary psykers form about 4%.
So let's say that the black ships arrive at a planet with a population of 5 billion for one of their "once in a generation" visits. The Black Ships will seek to capture as many psykers as they can from the 0.1% pool of active psykers. If they achieve 50% efficiency, this means that they are capturing half a million psykers. Of these half a million, 25%-125,000 people- will be killed immediately as they're too dangerous to be allowed to live. 70% of the pool (350,000 people) will be taken to Terra to be fed to the Emperor. 4% of the pool (20,000 people) have the potential to become astropaths, or to be selected to assist the Emperor in focussing the Astonomicon. This does not mean that all will - presumably during training a high percentage (99%+?) fail and are killed. This leaves about 200 to be split between Astropaths and the Adeptus Astronomica. Assuming a 50/50 split between those two organisations, this means only 100 secondary psykers actually leave Terra from an entire generation's worth of harvested humans. Of these 100, most will be relatively low-level Astropaths, suitable for use in choirs, but not as astropaths transcendant.
The 1% of the psykers aboard the Black ship (5,000) who have the potential to become primaris psykers are presumably subjected to even more stringent testing. Assuming a failure rate again of around 99%, the same as the secondary psykers, you're looking at 50 surviving primaris psykers, most of whom will be destined for the Imperial Guard as cannon fodder.
Now I hope my numbers stack up (check 'em, it's entirely possible I've miscalculated somewhere), but those numbers work for me.
N0-1_H3r3 said:
(As an aside, from those figures and my own estimates of the size of the Imperium, that's still enough for there to be as many psykers produced in a year as there are people on Earth today, with about six and a half thousand Astropaths and about six Sanctioned Psykers forming a part of that number... remember, that's per year).
And just to revisit your figures, N0_1, I can't see that 6 sanctioned psykers a year stacks up credibly with the portrayal of the terrible treatment psykers receive in the Imperium as a whole. Look at the way sanctioned psykers are treated in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade: herded en masse to use as cannon fodder against Daemons, kept in cages, their ears trimmed off etc etc. It also doesn't stack up with their protrayal as psychic batteries to support Primaris psykers in the most recent Imperial Guard Codex.
If only 6 a year were being produced across the whole Imperium, they'd be incredibly respected figures, not the dangerous cattle they're treated as in the canon. I would suggest that the Imperium probably churns out between 5 and 50 million sanctioned psykers a year, with most of them being at the low end of the scale.
I'd also suggest that the Imperium uses casualties and attrition as a form of training for all but the most extraordinary candidates. What I mean by this is that the very best and most powerful psykers will be singled out for use in the Inquisition (Hector Rex, Jaq Draco, Ravenor etc etc) or the Astartes, but the rest are effectively trained by learning to survive in the dangerous environments the Imperium can throw them at. They'll send 1,000 sanctioned psykers to support a massive military campaign, assuming that 99% of them will die, and the survivors will then be useful and powerful enough to consider receiving trainign to become primaris psykers.
Lightbringer said:
And just to revisit your figures, N0_1, I can't see that 6 sanctioned psykers a year stacks up credibly with the portrayal of the terrible treatment psykers receive in the Imperium as a whole. Look at the way sanctioned psykers are treated in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade: herded en masse to use as cannon fodder against Daemons, kept in cages, their ears trimmed off etc etc. It also doesn't stack up with their protrayal as psychic batteries to support Primaris psykers in the most recent Imperial Guard Codex.
Two points... firstly, I personally don't hold to anything that goes on in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade, mainly because I don't incorporate anything that Dan Abnett creates into my interpretation of the setting unless it's backed up by some other source elsewhere that he didn't write. Dan Abnett's 40k is Dan Abnett's 40k, and that doesn't necessarily have to have any bearing on anything else. As for their portrayal in the Imperial Guard codex... well, that's a matter of relative rarity - how many armies in how many warzones actually contain and make use of a coven of Sanctioned Psykers in battle compared to the number that don't?
Secondly, looking back, I screwed up with my numbers there - I was going from half-remembered notes I'd left at work and didn't have available at the time. The actual values I'd worked from were 3.3x10^17 for the approximate population of the Imperium (based on some old calculations made years ago on the old Specialist Games Inquisitor boards, the Conclave based on the data in the 3rd edition rulebook), with an approximate 2% annual birth rate, 1,000,000:1 'baseline' human births to psyker births, 1,000:1 psyker births to Secondary Psyker births (not 1,000,000:1 - there's the error I made), and 1,000:1 Secondary Psyker births to Primary Psyker births. That works out to 6.6 million potential Secondary Psykers born each year (even assuming only 50% survive the Soul Binding, etc, that's still 3.3 new Astropaths per planet in the Imperium per year on average... more than enough to replace those who burn out or are otherwise slain), and about 6,600 potential Primary Psykers born each year.
All that aside, screwed up numbers don't invalidate my basic point - that Sanctioned Psykers (the only form of legitimate psyker for whom arguably no specific reason exists for them to go to Terra - Sacrifices go to Terra to be fed into the Throne, Astropaths need to be Soul Bound, Astronomicon Choristers need to be with the rest of the Choir) are such a minority amongst other psykers that it's inefficient to stop a Blackship along its already very long route for only a handful of potential Primary psykers.
As for attrition as a method of training... IMO, I imagine that a significant portion of the testing process is attritional in nature, allowing a Blackship to discard those too weak to be useful en-route (having burnt them out during tests and trials) to make room for those that it'll pick up at its next stop. The Primary and Secondary psykers that make it to Terra have already survived a significant portion of the attrition needed to root out the worthy and the valuable.
To the matter of the Astartes - a lot of potential Librarians appear to be identified by the Librarius divisions of each Chapter, and then sanctioned and trained within the Chapters themselves, with very little intervention from the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Librarians and their ilk tend to be quite disproportionately stable and potent as well, with the suggestion that the geneseed contributes towards psychic capabilities (not an unreasonable theory, given that all the Primarchs are said to have possessed some level of psychic ability, and the Emperor is the most powerful and stable human psyker to have ever existed) and that Astartes physiology is better equipped to resist the dangerous effects of the Warp than normal humans are (a concept used in Black Crusade).
I would consider the danger of a Psyker being born on a ship pretty real, especially if you have already a sizable amount of psykers aboard. The Traitor's Nexus supplement for Rogue Trader features a ship that fell on a planet after a mutiny. They had a squad of battle-psykers aboard and it is specifically mentioned that many of their children (the first generation is still alive) are psykers too. Unsanctioned psykers. Of course this leads back to the old debate what "sanctioning" actually is. Is it some special operation that can only be performed on Terra? (Librarians would seem to counter that.) Is it simply killing everybody who is not strong enough to keep himself safe from daemons and enslavers? Or is it some kind of special training?
Psykers are generaly feared and hated by the masses of humanity, especially thanks to the way the church propagates the idea that they're tainted and evil.
So I can't see them being too likely to breed with the normals. And as I agree with No Hero's estimates on the population, there aren't really going to be enough on any ship to spawn a large number of ofspring no matter how many years go by. I'd also likely suspect that it's one of those things that they don't really have the freedom to do, given the way they really like to keep them under control.
I personally imagine that this is one of those things a Rogue Trader's Warrant covers - how psykers are dealt with are up to the Rogue Trader himself. I imagine that the way this is dealt with on regular ships are that the suspected psyker in question is either turned over to or apprehended by resident Adeptus Arbites or, on military vessels, whatever legal arbitration is present. They're then sent to a Courthouse on a planet where they are incarcerated in one way or another, while the proper authorities - presumably agents of the League of Blackships - are contacted. Agents of the League of Blackships or of the Inquisition shows up, take custody of the suspected psyker, and transport him to the League of Blackships.
I can't cite a source for any of this, but this is how I've just assumed it to work. Of course, a Rogue Trader can just wing it. Just remember that it's probably highly illegal to keep unsanctioned psykers. It's probably a lot harder to get a psyker sanctioned than to get, for example, a xenos. No matter the specifics, he absolutely does have to go to the Black Ships and he absolutely does have to go to Terra and he absolutely does have to get training.
So it's probably a bad idea to have your character stand up in the middle of a session and confess to being a psyker. He'll be gone for years and likely never come back.
To some extents, I'd imagine a 'psykerhold' would be a viable thing for a conscientious Rogue Trader to aim for. It'd allow for Rogue Traders to 'harvest' psykers from human worlds beyond the Emperor's realms and store them for eventual return to the Adeptus Astra Telepathica.
Furthermore, it strikes me that in the DH style, almost no psykers running about in Calixis would actually be *from* Calixis. Being brought to Terra, sanctioned, repurposed then 'sent out'... I imagine being sent to 'near home' is probably not an important point for the AAT.
I could foresee larger 'Depots' being set at the Segmentum Homeworlds (or further from Terra, bureacratically) for exchange/processing of the minority. Cramming more ones who *have* to go to Terra, given their rarity, might be significant in productivity (but not a significant loss of time, as it can be largely done at settlements/waypoints, not needing the ships to stop for too long).
From page 69 of Creatures Anathema;
Although the Inquisition and the feared Black Ships work
rigorously to ensure that every psyker is taken to the Scholastica
Psykana and either sanctioned or sent to Holy Terra for “final
processing,” the authorities cannot be everywhere at once.
Sometimes a potential psyker slips through the cracks. This
is especially true amongst the teaming masses of people on
hive worlds, or on the savage frontier and death worlds where
Imperial rule is weak or non–existent.
Lacking any sort of guidance or understanding of their
powers, these poor wretches often suffer a grim fate. If they
do not destroy themselves with bursts of uncontrolled warp
power, they often find themselves killed by their superstitious
neighbours and kin. A very few survive long enough to flee into
the wastelands of their world, be it the underhive or deserted
mountains and forests. There they develop their powers on their
own, through a mixture of guesswork and experimentation.
Those that survive without drawing the attention of the
powers that lurk within the warp become a strange breed
of psyker, partially feral and unnaturally attuned with their
environment. Frequently, they exhibit the ability to summon
beasts to aid and fight for them, and in some cases are even able
to communicate with creatures.
These psykers, sometimes known as Verminspeakers, can
become valued, if distrusted, allies to both hive gangs and
savage tribes. Their powers make them fearsome in battle and
useful in matters of strategy, and some may rise to positions
of power within these social organizations by putting on a
front of a fortune teller or seer. In these cases, it is more likely
the Verminspeaker is using chicanery and dramatic flair than
actual warp power. But when dealing with someone who allies
with Maw–flukes and Sabre–wolves, few are willing to voice
their doubts.
I wonder if Scholastica Psykanas have to be planetbound, or if they are allowed to exist onboard vessels. Because I could totally live with having a psyker-school onboard my ship.
IIRC from the fluff, psykers are very, very rare, but in an Imperium of countless billions, there are still millions, if not tens or hundreds of millions, of psykers. So while they're not common, they're probably relatively ubiquitous in various ways for those the PCs are likely to rub shoulders with in most DH/RT/DW games on various levels.
It's not as difficult to believe that all psykers are dropped off on Terra -- everyone of them who isn't executed and doesn't need to visit Terra is a Sanctioned Psyker or possibly a candidate for a Librarian, which are relatively small percentages of the population that is processed. Given the fluff, it's also very likely that many psykers strong enough to be Sanctioned end up as Astropaths anyway, since the later are more valuable to the Imperium as a whole.
All that psycho-talk is interesting but there are IMO there are even more dangerous/potent psykers that are born and trained away from Terra or Imperial Space. I'm talking about Navigators, as there are many kinds of Houses there are Nomad and Renegade Houses that are still functioning without any interaction with Imperium officials or Terra. They are warp gifted (like psykers) and go trough taining that has nothing to do with sanctioning. I know the Navigator Gene is mutation but still in theory a psyker is also a mutant and mutants also can have psychic potential.
So if there are some Psykers born on ship they could be trained by other psykers that are onboard. Yeah they can be killed outrught if the psyker will fell that baby is "tainted" by psychic gift but if that child belongs to Rogue Trader then it's different story and is treated specially. So in reality I don't see a problem in Psyker that is not sanctioned.
And as the Question was given here, WTF!?! is Sanctioning of Psyker? I really want to know this since I didn't find any official sources that would explained the "process".
Norticus, Navigator only get really scary when the current top navigator dies... then all the house sion become so bloated super dangerous creature that as to kill is rivals... it's nasty and dangerous.
Navigators are left alone a.) because they never develop psychic powers beyond their warp eye (the two genes are not really compatible, and a Navigator can only be born between two Navigators (it's a recessive trait/gene), so neither would have the Psyker gene), and thius no psychic powers to fear, again, other than the warp eye, and b.) because their guild set up, in standard Dune fashion, gives them a certain amount of freedom from the Imperium; Navigators are NECESSARY, even if the Imperium can liquidate some who misbehave.
TMU, sanctioning consists of years of tests, whereby one is poked and prodded, tempted and tortured, to see how strong their minds are, and how strong their faith is. They are exposed to pain, to see if they might lash out, how, and to what degree of effect. They are exposed to telepathss voices, who pretend to be daemons, to see if they will allow themselves to be bought. They are given monitored chances to cheat/rebel, to see if they are truly absorbing the training, and punished if they deviate. They are subjected to puzzles, and tested to see how the powers they have might allow them to solve such conundrums, and if they are able to rely on themselves, and not their powers, when appropriate. Numerous probes are conducted, seeking taint, corruption, weakness, and secrets. If, after all that time, they resist damnation, they are "sanctioned", demonstrating a level of skill to be of use, a level of control to use it, and a level of faith to stand against further temptation, and serve Him on Terra, and no one else.
Psykers born in out-of-the-way places are usually taken into custody. Whether on ships or planets, they are confined, hopefully (for them) without resistance, and the governance of the world/ship in question will send a message, requesting assistance. An Inquisitorial agent, or transport of the Black Ships might show up later, or the Black Ship, itself, and take the individual into custody. From there, they are tested, ferried to Terra, and tested more. Years later, if they live, they get sanctioned. In many cases, the dogma of the Imperium would have one who learns they are psykers terrified, self-loathing, and just as wanting to be taken as everyone else around them. Only through this trial can such a one find a place in the Emperor's light, and all in the Imperium long to be there. Those who resist are taken, and we find out that every world has at least one small bunker, containing a handful of rare devices designed to fell a psyker, and allow their indefinite incarceration.
I'm confused why so much attention has been given to how many psykers there are. It seems to me that the answer is 'there are exactly as many psykers in the imperium/sector/world/starship/city/room as the narrative requires'.
As to what happens to rogue psykers/psykers born outside the normal imperial channels? Here's one version: My feral world assassin is from a space marine tithe world. Within his tribe/gang there were three main warrior houses. One of the aspects of my characters house is that they hunt the witches, and 'deal' with troublesome emergent powers...
...and they don't ever bring them back for the black ships.
Zakalwe said:
I'm confused why so much attention has been given to how many psykers there are. It seems to me that the answer is 'there are exactly as many psykers in the imperium/sector/world/starship/city/room as the narrative requires'.
As to what happens to rogue psykers/psykers born outside the normal imperial channels? Here's one version: My feral world assassin is from a space marine tithe world. Within his tribe/gang there were three main warrior houses. One of the aspects of my characters house is that they hunt the witches, and 'deal' with troublesome emergent powers...
...and they don't ever bring them back for the black ships.
That works because Space Marine worlds, overall, exist independantly from the Imperium and Inquisition. "Regular" worlds have people who's whole job involves number-crunching, calculating how many psykers should be born how ever many years. When the tithe ship appears, the planet better present that many, or it governance will be brought to question. It is the responsibility of the P. Gov. and the Arbites to accumulate the requisite number of psykers, or have a Sage-like character who has a very detailed study explaining the fall-off; otherwise they are being lazy, and the Imperium doesn't like lazy. The Inquisition then shows up, and probes your world, finding out everything you were hiding. Due to that scrutiny, the Governor does look thoroughly for psykers, and they aren't just shot; they are held, and sent to the Black Ships. If they don't try to keep them alive, they are technically trying to kill the God Emperor; he NEEDS psykers, both for his lifeforce and the Astronomicon, and if you don't have them to send, because you killed them, you are in trouble (certainly, there should always be enough psykers, but it's the idea that will be used). Luckily for Space Marines, their donation of Space Marines to the Imperium puts everything else they do practically beyond reproach of every other agency, and they don't have to pay tithes.
Of course, I assume you already know all this, but I thought I'd toss it out there, for the fun of typing
OK Venkelos I can by all that but still if the Space Marine Worlds are "out of Imperial jurisdiction" and they still have Librarian's and since they are psykers are they also sanctioned or they are trained in their own right. And lets exclude Space Wolves Chapter and Exorcicsts Chaper both are difrent than most Space Marine Chapters. And if Sanctioning Psykers really looks like you described it then isn't it better for some of them to commit suicide?
venkelos said:
Zakalwe said:
I'm confused why so much attention has been given to how many psykers there are. It seems to me that the answer is 'there are exactly as many psykers in the imperium/sector/world/starship/city/room as the narrative requires'.
As to what happens to rogue psykers/psykers born outside the normal imperial channels? Here's one version: My feral world assassin is from a space marine tithe world. Within his tribe/gang there were three main warrior houses. One of the aspects of my characters house is that they hunt the witches, and 'deal' with troublesome emergent powers...
...and they don't ever bring them back for the black ships.
That works because Space Marine worlds, overall, exist independantly from the Imperium and Inquisition. "Regular" worlds have people who's whole job involves number-crunching, calculating how many psykers should be born how ever many years. When the tithe ship appears, the planet better present that many, or it governance will be brought to question. It is the responsibility of the P. Gov. and the Arbites to accumulate the requisite number of psykers, or have a Sage-like character who has a very detailed study explaining the fall-off; otherwise they are being lazy, and the Imperium doesn't like lazy. The Inquisition then shows up, and probes your world, finding out everything you were hiding. Due to that scrutiny, the Governor does look thoroughly for psykers, and they aren't just shot; they are held, and sent to the Black Ships. If they don't try to keep them alive, they are technically trying to kill the God Emperor; he NEEDS psykers, both for his lifeforce and the Astronomicon, and if you don't have them to send, because you killed them, you are in trouble (certainly, there should always be enough psykers, but it's the idea that will be used). Luckily for Space Marines, their donation of Space Marines to the Imperium puts everything else they do practically beyond reproach of every other agency, and they don't have to pay tithes.
Of course, I assume you already know all this, but I thought I'd toss it out there, for the fun of typing
Well yeah, I agree, but I can't see the (e.g.) Black Templars giving a ****. Chapters like that prefer troops that will not balk at attacking and murdering witches. The other players in my group joke that it must have been a Black Templar world because of the way I play my character (he hates psykers nearly as much as mutants). It wasn't, it was a custom chapter called the 'Mailed Valedictors' made up using Memetix's awesome spreadsheet. They are a secret chapter created by an Inquisitor Lord as his army way back. They now maintain close ties with the Inquisition. Mostly an infantry based chapter with Thunderhawk Deployment as their speciality, no techmarines.
Mailed Valedictors, Founded: Strategic Prognostication, When: 35 Millenium, +5 Per/Str, Advances: Secret Lore, Beliefs: Death Cult, Current Status: Under Strength, Friends: Inquisition, Enemies: ???, Progenator: Imperial Fists, Purity: A new generation, Demeanor: No Mercy, No Respite, Flaw: Faith in suspicion, Home World: Feral World, Sub Tropical, Stewardship, Codex chapter, Restricted Speciality: Techmarine, Solo: Quick Reactions, Squad Attack: Storm of Hell, Squad Defensive: Only in Death.
Most of that was random with a little tweaking. I don't know what the special squad or solo stuff gives, but it all sounds cool and very much in line with the concept. I wouldn't normally go into that much detail, a 'space marine tithe world' would be enough,but with that awesome sreadsheet how could I resist.
I love the 'Death Cult' bit. Combined with 'Faith in suspicion', and the fact that they don't control the unrestricted murder of psykers on their planet is a potential hook.
Of more relevance to my character though, is that on the planet they venerate the Emporer as 'the great sky warrior grandfather who sits on the golden chair across the void'. Which is where his loyalty to the Inquisition's cause comes from, making him very usfull to a passing inquisitor despite having been rejected by the Space Marines (he was awesome at rank 1 except for WP=21. I figured he got taken in the initial draft but didn't pass some sort of mental toughness test). He has since raised that to a mighty 26 and purchased Resistance fear and resistance psykic. Now he is a wytch/beast hunter heading towards Interrogator and scary as all get out..