Playing from X to get y effect, also 1 response per trigger

By Underworld40k, in 2. AGoT Rules Discussion

Had a search for some likely answered questions (that i would swear i have read) and while i had some luck with one not so much with the others.

When you play a card from an area (hand or shadows the likely ones) and the action allows for a triggered effect , say alchemist guildhall and shadows, is the response option created when a shadows card is played outside of the standard shadows mechanic of 1 card at the start of a phase? For example; guardian wolf. I assume yes but i know that the game can be picky about exact wording and timing conditions.

The response per trigger question is mostly about multiple attachments being stacked on characters, i seem to remember reading that a character with several chains is unable to kneel to activate all chains at once as they resolve individually and require a kneel per chain but what about cards like 'pickpocket'

"Response: After you win an Intrigue challenge in which attached character participated, you may choose to take 1 gold from the defending player or the treasury and add it to your gold pool."

If a character has 2 attached pickpockets then i assume that the effect resolves twice, 1 for each card? Would it be the case that if kneeling is involved then the act of kneeling removes the ability to trigger multiple attachments to a response?

Brain is yet to wake up properly yet so apologies if the questions are as idiotic as they seem.

Underworld40k said:

When you play a card from an area (hand or shadows the likely ones) and the action allows for a triggered effect , say alchemist guildhall and shadows, is the response option created when a shadows card is played outside of the standard shadows mechanic of 1 card at the start of a phase? For example; guardian wolf. I assume yes but i know that the game can be picky about exact wording and timing conditions.

I'd be good to have a specific example. But generally, all of the responses that respond to a card coming out of Shadows are worded in such a way that they should be akin to an response that responds to a card "entering play", in that it does not care about the time you bring the card out of Shadows. So Alchemists Guild Hall can respond to Guardian Wolf being brought out of Shadows in the middle of the challenges phase, for example.

Underworld40k said:


The response per trigger question is mostly about multiple attachments being stacked on characters, i seem to remember reading that a character with several chains is unable to kneel to activate all chains at once as they resolve individually and require a kneel per chain

Careful!!! This is only true for chains on which the ability requires you to kneel the character as a cost ("Kneel attached character to do X"), because a cost paid for one effect cannot pay for a second effect.

However, the majority of the chains respond to the character being knelt ("After attached character kneels, do X), for whatever reason. See the difference? So the response opportunity opens up for all of those chains, and they can all respond individually (and consecutively, because in this game, each ability is full resolved before the next one initiates) to the character being knelt.

Underworld40k said:

but what about cards like 'pickpocket'

"Response: After you win an Intrigue challenge in which attached character participated, you may choose to take 1 gold from the defending player or the treasury and add it to your gold pool."

If a character has 2 attached pickpockets then i assume that the effect resolves twice, 1 for each card? Would it be the case that if kneeling is involved then the act of kneeling removes the ability to trigger multiple attachments to a response?

Yes, if the character has two copies of Pickpocket attached, the response opportunity is open for both of them, so they can respond both individually (and consecutively) to attached character winning an intrigue challenge.

Again, kneeling becomes relevant if it constitutes a cost for an effect. So let's say Pickpocket was worded like this "After you win an Intrigue challenge, kneel attached character to take 1 gold and so forth." You win an Intrigue challenge. Let's say the character with Pickpocket did not participate, because then it would likely be already kneeling. You trigger the response on the first Pickpocket attachment. You kneel the character to pay for the effect. You take 1 gold. Now you cannot trigger the response on the second Pickpocket attachment, because the character is already kneeling and thus cannot be used to pay for the effect.

So always watch out for "do X to do Y" constructions. X is always the cost for effect Y. If the cost is to kneel a character, it only pays for a single effect. Just like you can't spend two gold to play two 2-cost characters during marshalling.

As always Saturnine thank you for the detailed response, brain is starting to wake up and a lot of what was confusing last night is starting to make a great deal of sense.

And to add to that, because you referenced "1 response per trigger" in your subject, but it didn't really play into the question you asked.

The "1 response per trigger" simply means that you cannot execute the same response twice for a single response trigger. So to go with the Pickpocket example, if you only have a single Pickpocket attachment on a character, and you win an intrigue challenge with that character, you may only activate the response once. You cannot get 2 or more gold by activating the same response (read: the same ability on the same card) multiple times for winning a single challenge. That'd be obviously ridiculous. :)