Powerful cards destroying long-term game balance?

By ppsantos, in The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game

Posted at

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

Listen i dont care you buy it or not. This is your bussines!You want to know how???? Try your self. And if you cannot this is your problem.

Beravur and Dan try this one please. I wonna listen your ideas about.

Posted at

Glaurung said:

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

Listen i dont care you buy it or not. This is your bussines!You want to know how???? Try your self. And if you cannot this is your problem.

Beravur and Dan try this one please. I wonna listen your ideas about.

I'd be happy to try if you'll post your deck lists so I can build them :)

Posted at

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

silverhand77 said:

Glaurung said:


I already have my video but quality is not really good. I cannot fix position of my camera and i hold camera in my hand so is not really nice.I try make better one.

About Beravur you put 3 U courage on him. And Steward is unique. I was a Decipher tournaments director 10 years before and was the best player in my country in Lotr TCG and 1 of the best MTG player as well. I know the rules dont worry. And my friend Koby as well very proff player so we both dont understand the rules????We oriented on the tournaments so we do EVERYTHING according to the rules and only rules. This is not a question.

About house rules and tournaments. I buy this game cose of Tournaments. And FFG in Some thread say there is a tournament system only come later.And in the rule book there is a tournament deck 50 card minimum + no more then 3 copies each. So we use this rules nothing more.

I buy 4 core set and my goal to win World cup(i always sad this from begin). We play only the OFFICIAL rules in this case. Cose all other experience you dont need it can even harm you. And we play on the same condition as every other players. We have all the same rules the same cards but different strategy and different ideas how to use the cards. Actually this is a whole point!!!

So we find the combo which is broke the game. And this is nothing new actually about this. Before in the Lotr TCG from Decipher was a same story.

1 player, after second set was release(MInes of moria) he make combo which is kill most of the decks. And was the same problem.Unlimited DRAW!!!He draw a lot in the first turn and get kiling Shadow hand combo and on the next turn he kill he is opponent.

Then Decipehr change the draw rules. Who use to play this game they know rules of 4 is: You cannot draw more then 4 cards in single turn.

But is true communty here is really different to community of the MTG and LOTR TCG in my old times(7-10years before).

Even with 3x Unexpected courage on Beravor. the most cards you can draw in a single turn is 8. for both of you (presumably with a minimum of 50 cards in your deck) it would take at least 12 turns to draw your entire decks. Lets say your opening hand has one copy of U Courage in it, on average it would probably take at least 2-3 turns to draw into a second one and then probably the same to draw into the third. I'm just thinking that in this time, you would also have to deal with enemies and questing and attcking and defending etc, plus you would have to control your threat all of which costs resources and requires exhausting characters. And then in Nightmare mode you'd have to shuffle all of them back into your deck and start again. You would need a lot of luck to get through all of the available quests one after the other as easily as you claim. I'm not buying it. The game just isn't that easy especially in nightmare mode.

Listen i dont care you buy it or not. This is your bussines!You want to know how???? Try your self. And if you cannot this is your problem.

Beravur and Dan try this one please. I wonna listen your ideas about.

I'd be happy to try if you'll post your deck lists so I can build them :)

Yes sure i can put deck lists but it take some time. But i already explain the idea so you can build the same deck by yourself. the most cards you know already. Other cards is not so important if there will be some another cards.

first Deck Beravur/Eowyn/Eleanor/ Will of the west, trackers, test of will, protector of lorien, Lore songs, BBrand, U Courage,Dwarfen tomb and all the best lore and spirit allies.

Second Gimly/Thalin/Teodred. Faramir, Steward, Lot of tactic allies, Eagles as well (Landroval), Feint quick strike,Horn of Gonfor , Armors, Mark, Warning and so on.

While first deck grow his power second one protect and fight. And after you draw like hell, quest like hell and do everything what you want.

But sure you must try and understand how to play. When you get the point is very easy. You will see.

Posted at

Ok, Thanks Glaurung, I'll build them and have a go :)

Posted at

And the quest report, please. Osgiliath, preferably. Maybe then, someone will believe you. You say you don't care whether people believe you or not, but then why posting here in the first place? Prove us wrong if you can. And good luck while you're at it!

Posted at

I get that Glaurung rubs some people the wrong way. But his basic deck concept is sound and has been since the release of the core set. I only have 2 core sets and always have 4-5 decks at any given time, so my decks aren’t quite as streamlined as Galrung’s. However, I run a spirit lore deck with Beravor, Eowyn and either Dunhere or Elanor that works on a similar concept. It works exceptionally well against most scenarios. When it works, you always draw through the whole of the deck.

If people really want, I can type up a session report, but the deck tends to have (in terms of turns) long games and with all of the card drawing it will take quite some time to type up.

Posted at

I think most people found decks that are capable of beating most scenarios (including Osgiliath). But I'd really like to see how this deck plays against Rhosgobel, Dol Guldur and Osgiliath. Additionally, assume that changing heroes is forbidden , so you can't add cards / heroes that help you against specific scenarios. And lastly , 1 or 2 wins against 1 or 2 games does not mean anything (make it 10 or 20 games against each quest and post results + some session reports)

Posted at

silverhand77 said:

Ok, Thanks Glaurung, I'll build them and have a go :)

I just get the Dain from Emyn Muil. Change him For Thailn. He is much better work with those decks. And when you try tell me how it is ok???

Posted at

Bohemond said:

I get that Glaurung rubs some people the wrong way. But his basic deck concept is sound and has been since the release of the core set. I only have 2 core sets and always have 4-5 decks at any given time, so my decks aren’t quite as streamlined as Galrung’s. However, I run a spirit lore deck with Beravor, Eowyn and either Dunhere or Elanor that works on a similar concept. It works exceptionally well against most scenarios. When it works, you always draw through the whole of the deck.

If people really want, I can type up a session report, but the deck tends to have (in terms of turns) long games and with all of the card drawing it will take quite some time to type up.

I personally have nothing against mr Glaurung, I find him a decent fellow, I try to be tolerant and I think he's too. On the other hand, I understand the concerns, there may be a cultural difference (I have lived in both East and West) but some of his comments sound strange or even arrogant to the "western ears", if I may call it so. I also think his strategies are fine, I just doubt the victory rates but I honestly do not mind being proven wrong by genuine session reports. And I like to see session reports in general, to react to the above. So good luck to all who may be in need!

And as always, enjoy!

Posted at

guciomir said:

I think most people found decks that are capable of beating most scenarios (including Osgiliath). But I'd really like to see how this deck plays against Rhosgobel, Dol Guldur and Osgiliath. Additionally, assume that changing heroes is forbidden , so you can't add cards / heroes that help you against specific scenarios. And lastly , 1 or 2 wins against 1 or 2 games does not mean anything (make it 10 or 20 games against each quest and post results + some session reports)

Over here 'most' people didn't find decks to beat all the scenarios. And I think that is the norm. I get the impression the forum is filled with extremely experienced players and people highly focussed on finetuned decks.
However great experience, vast amounts of 'play' and great deckbuilds are NOT the norm. Every cardgame has it's broken combo's. I have never encountered one without it. But in this game it's not really a problem whatsoever.
It's like the 'Gandalf' thing people have complained about. He's so good you'll always take him. So? Nobody is forcing you to take him. You can go for thematic decks or try other things. And it'll be far more in tune with the flavor of the game on top!

Posted at

It's the classic disconnect between the casual gamer and the "metagamer". Clearly, Glaurung is one of the latter and all he really cares about is getting this game tournament ready. He just said as much himself when he mentioned that the only reason he joined are tournaments. His delivery could use some "softening up", but outside of that, to each his own.

I'm starting to wonder if in a game like this, there will be a need (eventually, mind you, not now) for a different banned/restricted list for solo and multiplayer. We have cards that are good for multi and nearly useless in solo. Likewise, there are cards (Northern Tracker, Unexpected Courage) that a solo player may not draw as many copies of during his games, but "metagamer" multiplayers will. I can see some real unbalancing issues in multi that I just don't see in solo. Or perhaps maybe such a banned/restricted list applicable for multi only, since this is the supposed format for tournaments. If solo is exclusively a casual format, then there will be no need for a list to apply to it.

Posted at

Titan said:

It's the classic disconnect between the casual gamer and the "metagamer". Clearly, Glaurung is one of the latter and all he really cares about is getting this game tournament ready. He just said as much himself when he mentioned that the only reason he joined are tournaments. His delivery could use some "softening up", but outside of that, to each his own.

I'm starting to wonder if in a game like this, there will be a need (eventually, mind you, not now) for a different banned/restricted list for solo and multiplayer. We have cards that are good for multi and nearly useless in solo. Likewise, there are cards (Northern Tracker, Unexpected Courage) that a solo player may not draw as many copies of during his games, but "metagamer" multiplayers will. I can see some real unbalancing issues in multi that I just don't see in solo. Or perhaps maybe such a banned/restricted list applicable for multi only, since this is the supposed format for tournaments. If solo is exclusively a casual format, then there will be no need for a list to apply to it.

Yes Titan you get my point. For casual players is not really matter problem of metagamer as you call it.

When i start to play this game 6 months before i already see some unbalanced thing with some cards like Beravur and tracker. Now as i say before also more and more players will notice that.

Actually we play just finish play another 3 session against Osgiliath but this time we use Beravur ability : once per turn. Everything change!!! We still win all 3 times but we was always on the edge and really need to think hard to manage it. That was really good games.

We Change Thalin for new Dain hero and put new Eagles. They work very good too.

Posted at

Even though I'd consider myself a casual gamer (mostly because I'm not planning on attending any sorts of tournaments) I love my metagame as well! And I spend quit some time building decks, trying new combos etc. And I'm sure that if FFG will ever release a list of restricted cards that I will follow their suggestions (like I did with the 50 card decks). Why? Because I also play the game according to the rules and the FAQ. Unless their changes get ridiculous and in the way of me and my partner having fun with the game. Then I'd gladly use my own house rules...

LOTR is the first living card game that I've followed from its very first release and I have every expansion so far. It's nice to see the game grow and develop and I think that's the reason why I react a bit allergic to people who talk about serious balancing issues and stuff. It's still really early in the game's life... and we've only seen very little.

As a former Magic player I'll do what I did with MtG: I play with the cards that are the most fun, experiment with some interesting combos and try to have a good time! As soon as I have a deck that's too good or a combo or card that makes my gaming experience less fun (either because it makes the game to easy or for some other reason), I'm going to stop using it! As simple as that.

Posted at

Bohemond said:

I get that Glaurung rubs some people the wrong way. But his basic deck concept is sound and has been since the release of the core set. I only have 2 core sets and always have 4-5 decks at any given time, so my decks aren’t quite as streamlined as Galrung’s. However, I run a spirit lore deck with Beravor, Eowyn and either Dunhere or Elanor that works on a similar concept. It works exceptionally well against most scenarios. When it works, you always draw through the whole of the deck.

If people really want, I can type up a session report, but the deck tends to have (in terms of turns) long games and with all of the card drawing it will take quite some time to type up.

The issue is not that you can't draw the whole deck, it is that it apparently makes every scenario too easy. OK so over the course of the game you might eventually draw the whole deck, but in that time you are being attacked, having to quest having to deal with all sorts of cards coming off the encounter deck. Surely that presents some kind of challenge? and surely you would always be able to use Beravor to draw especially early on. And can you have the same draw mechanic successfully working in a solo game? I'm thinking maybe, but it wouldn't be as efficient so there would be more of a challenge.

Posted at

The basic strategy works incredibly well in the solo game. I will try to post a session report on my first attempt at Osgilith to illustrate how the deck works either tonight or tomorrow. In this particular case, I didn't draw Unexpected courage until around 40 cards in, but it should still let you see how the concept operates in action. Against easier scenarios (Anduin, Mirkwood, Gullum and Carrock) it almost always secures victory.

edit: deck does alright against rhosgobel, but not as well as it does against the other four.

Posted at

Bohemond said:

I didn't draw Unexpected courage until around 40 cards in, but it should still let you see how the concept operates in action. Against easier scenarios (Anduin, Mirkwood, Gullum and Carrock) it almost always secures victory.

edit: deck does alright against rhosgobel, but not as well as it does against the other four.

Please stop. There is no one card that "almost always secures victory."

Posted at

Big Borg said:

Bohemond said:

I didn't draw Unexpected courage until around 40 cards in, but it should still let you see how the concept operates in action. Against easier scenarios (Anduin, Mirkwood, Gullum and Carrock) it almost always secures victory.

edit: deck does alright against rhosgobel, but not as well as it does against the other four.

Please stop. There is no one card that "almost always secures victory."

I don't belieeve that Bohemond is saying that just one card almost always secures victory, I believe he is saying that Unexpected courage attached to Beravor as well as cards like Ancient Mathom and Gleowine etc (all cards that allow card draw) do. He is talking about a deck mechanic. One which no-one is by any means forced to use. I say that if it makes the game too easy then don't use Beravor or limt Unexpected courage to 2 copies in your deck at most, or make a choice not to attach them all to Beravor or any other card which exhausts for card draw. Simply put, choose another strategy to play by. The only thing that limits the enjoyment of the game is how we as players choose to play it, The available card pool is big enough that you don't have to build a deck which completely breaks the game. All this whining about how the game is too easy is just annoying and pointless. I would go so far as to say that the game is only too easy if you choose to build decks with an unlimited draw mechanic, my suggested cure for this is limit the draw mechanic and you will find the game much more challenging.

Posted at

Big Borg said:

Bohemond said:

I didn't draw Unexpected courage until around 40 cards in, but it should still let you see how the concept operates in action. Against easier scenarios (Anduin, Mirkwood, Gullum and Carrock) it almost always secures victory.

edit: deck does alright against rhosgobel, but not as well as it does against the other four.

Please stop. There is no one card that "almost always secures victory."

I was talking about a deck, not a card.

Posted at

silverhand77 said:


I don't belieeve that Bohemond is saying that just one card almost always secures victory, I believe he is saying that Unexpected courage attached to Beravor as well as cards like Ancient Mathom and Gleowine etc (all cards that allow card draw) do. He is talking about a deck mechanic. One which no-one is by any means forced to use. I say that if it makes the game too easy then don't use Beravor or limt Unexpected courage to 2 copies in your deck at most, or make a choice not to attach them all to Beravor or any other card which exhausts for card draw. Simply put, choose another strategy to play by. The only thing that limits the enjoyment of the game is how we as players choose to play it, The available card pool is big enough that you don't have to build a deck which completely breaks the game. All this whining about how the game is too easy is just annoying and pointless. I would go so far as to say that the game is only too easy if you choose to build decks with an unlimited draw mechanic, my suggested cure for this is limit the draw mechanic and you will find the game much more challenging.

First of all, I am not whining. People expressed high degrees of skepticism about the efficacy of a specific deck archetype. I'm attempting to show them that the deck does, in fact work well. Nothing about that can evenly vaguely be construed as whining

Second, I don't think I have ever said that the game is to easy. I have advocated for a restricted list that would include a very small number of cards (I proposed four). It would only be for tournament play and anyone could easily ignore it. And it would improve the overall quality of the game.

Finally, I will say, for the umpteenth time, that choosing not to play with specific cards doesn't solve the problem because of the way the game is developed and tested. Were not talking about a game that exist in a single moment, but how it evolves going forward.

EDIT: I would remind people that Nate French has already discussed that a restricted list is a possibility for the game should the need arise, so it should certainly be a topic one can discuss on the boards with generating hostility.

Posted at

Bohemond said:

silverhand77 said:


I don't belieeve that Bohemond is saying that just one card almost always secures victory, I believe he is saying that Unexpected courage attached to Beravor as well as cards like Ancient Mathom and Gleowine etc (all cards that allow card draw) do. He is talking about a deck mechanic. One which no-one is by any means forced to use. I say that if it makes the game too easy then don't use Beravor or limt Unexpected courage to 2 copies in your deck at most, or make a choice not to attach them all to Beravor or any other card which exhausts for card draw. Simply put, choose another strategy to play by. The only thing that limits the enjoyment of the game is how we as players choose to play it, The available card pool is big enough that you don't have to build a deck which completely breaks the game. All this whining about how the game is too easy is just annoying and pointless. I would go so far as to say that the game is only too easy if you choose to build decks with an unlimited draw mechanic, my suggested cure for this is limit the draw mechanic and you will find the game much more challenging.

First of all, I am not whining. People expressed high degrees of skepticism about the efficacy of a specific deck archetype. I'm attempting to show them that the deck does, in fact work well. Nothing about that can evenly vaguely be construed as whining

Second, I don't think I have ever said that the game is to easy. I have advocated for a restricted list that would include a very small number of cards (I proposed four). It would only be for tournament play and anyone could easily ignore it. And it would improve the overall quality of the game.

Finally, I will say, for the umpteenth time, that choosing not to play with specific cards doesn't solve the problem because of the way the game is developed and tested. Were not talking about a game that exist in a single moment, but how it evolves going forward.

EDIT: I would remind people that Nate French has already discussed that a restricted list is a possibility for the game should the need arise, so it should certainly be a topic one can discuss on the boards with generating hostility.

What is your Restricted list????

There is some thread where Nate talking about Restricted?????If yes please give me the link.

Posted at

silverhand77 said:

Dam said:

7 to start off with (leaving only 43 to draw through), 9 per turn eventually (8 from Beravor + 1 each turn), that's 50+ cards in 5 turns by my math (9x5 = 45 + 7 = 52). Of course resources are an issue as is drawing all 3 UC, but then again, there is Ancient Mathom for 1 resource -> 3 cards. I've seen 35+ cards with Beravor + 2x UC in my games (vs Carrock of course, there is all the time in the world for hoarding cards during stage 1) in somewhere around 10 turns without fully optimising the draw as well (throwing a few cards for the other deck as well)

Yep I can see that your maths is correct. However I still don't think you could pull it off 8 consecutive times in a row especially with massing in the mix. You wouldn't have much time to hoard cards in massing.

Hi Silverhand77, I am the guy who plays with Glaurung and i can assure you we are not cheating.

the mechanics of the decks was already explained (i deck is protector and other one is control/quest), Massing is tricky in the first few turns (my estimation is 3-4) and after that you can prety much know if you are going to win or not, the trick is letting the Tactics/leadership deck be the 1st player. questing is done depending on draw (but usual quest value is 7-8) depending on how much we lose by we raise out threat (starting threat is 26 for the s/l and 29 for t/leadrship) you never reach 35 so you are safe for a round or 2 before next wave of enemies (Wainriders). starting of combat both snaga come to the spirit/lore deck and tactics/leadership get both wolves (he draws one and one goes automatically as he is the 1st player). Again you play now according to what you drew, for example if s/l deck can deal with the shadow effect Gimly can take an undefended attack (and then he can kill a wolf by himself) if t/l have sneak attack with Gandalf u can play it kill one and def against the other if you have feint or quick strike can use as well. on the spirit/lore front usually you take one or two undefended attacks (if you managed an unexpected courage or an ally and you Eleanor didnt cancel a shadow effect you have a potential of defending both) and then beravor kills one snaga. usually if you survive (8to 9 times out of 10 you will ) the rest is pretty much the same but easier as the staging area threat is lower, as you play your list of ally's is getting bigger and bigger as well as your hand (with the help if Beravor). must of the time after the initial 2-3 turns you wont have to deal with more than one enemy at a time and even if you do the t/l deck have enough sentinels that by then one is out and can help or the s/l dealing with it by itself.

resources issue is addressed by Theodred horn of Gondor and Steward of Gondor.

once you have Faramir is out its an easy cruise to the end. you don't even need to kill Witch King as both players will have enough questing value to do it in one go (Faramir and/or P.O Lorien makes sure of that).

Cheers

Posted at

Kobby said:

silverhand77 said:

Dam said:

7 to start off with (leaving only 43 to draw through), 9 per turn eventually (8 from Beravor + 1 each turn), that's 50+ cards in 5 turns by my math (9x5 = 45 + 7 = 52). Of course resources are an issue as is drawing all 3 UC, but then again, there is Ancient Mathom for 1 resource -> 3 cards. I've seen 35+ cards with Beravor + 2x UC in my games (vs Carrock of course, there is all the time in the world for hoarding cards during stage 1) in somewhere around 10 turns without fully optimising the draw as well (throwing a few cards for the other deck as well)

Yep I can see that your maths is correct. However I still don't think you could pull it off 8 consecutive times in a row especially with massing in the mix. You wouldn't have much time to hoard cards in massing.

Hi Silverhand77, I am the guy who plays with Glaurung and i can assure you we are not cheating.

the mechanics of the decks was already explained (i deck is protector and other one is control/quest), Massing is tricky in the first few turns (my estimation is 3-4) and after that you can prety much know if you are going to win or not, the trick is letting the Tactics/leadership deck be the 1st player. questing is done depending on draw (but usual quest value is 7-8) depending on how much we lose by we raise out threat (starting threat is 26 for the s/l and 29 for t/leadrship) you never reach 35 so you are safe for a round or 2 before next wave of enemies (Wainriders). starting of combat both snaga come to the spirit/lore deck and tactics/leadership get both wolves (he draws one and one goes automatically as he is the 1st player). Again you play now according to what you drew, for example if s/l deck can deal with the shadow effect Gimly can take an undefended attack (and then he can kill a wolf by himself) if t/l have sneak attack with Gandalf u can play it kill one and def against the other if you have feint or quick strike can use as well. on the spirit/lore front usually you take one or two undefended attacks (if you managed an unexpected courage or an ally and you Eleanor didnt cancel a shadow effect you have a potential of defending both) and then beravor kills one snaga. usually if you survive (8to 9 times out of 10 you will ) the rest is pretty much the same but easier as the staging area threat is lower, as you play your list of ally's is getting bigger and bigger as well as your hand (with the help if Beravor). must of the time after the initial 2-3 turns you wont have to deal with more than one enemy at a time and even if you do the t/l deck have enough sentinels that by then one is out and can help or the s/l dealing with it by itself.

resources issue is addressed by Theodred horn of Gondor and Steward of Gondor.

once you have Faramir is out its an easy cruise to the end. you don't even need to kill Witch King as both players will have enough questing value to do it in one go (Faramir and/or P.O Lorien makes sure of that).

Cheers

I can see what you mean about how your decks work. But please let me assure you I'm not accusing you of cheating, I just thought you might not be following the rules correctly or perhaps playing by a house rule, But I can see that you're not. Apologies for any misunderstanding around that.

Having said that, I do feel strongly that enjoyment of the game comes down to how we choose to play it. You guys are absolutely free to include or exclude and cards you want from your decks to make it harder and more challenging and therefore more enjoyable for yourselves. If your deck doesn't have an ulimited draw mechanic I believe you will find the challenge you are looking for. :)

Posted at

(Official) restricted or banned lists are only relevant for tournament play. You won't see a restricted or banned list until in an official tournament it becomes obvious to everyone present that a card is broken or so powerful that it unbalances the meta.

For casual play, players should feel free to create their own list of restricted and banned cards that they stick to when playing (or invent any number of houserules to make the game the most fun for their tastes).

Posted at

Bohemond said:

silverhand77 said:


I don't belieeve that Bohemond is saying that just one card almost always secures victory, I believe he is saying that Unexpected courage attached to Beravor as well as cards like Ancient Mathom and Gleowine etc (all cards that allow card draw) do. He is talking about a deck mechanic. One which no-one is by any means forced to use. I say that if it makes the game too easy then don't use Beravor or limt Unexpected courage to 2 copies in your deck at most, or make a choice not to attach them all to Beravor or any other card which exhausts for card draw. Simply put, choose another strategy to play by. The only thing that limits the enjoyment of the game is how we as players choose to play it, The available card pool is big enough that you don't have to build a deck which completely breaks the game. All this whining about how the game is too easy is just annoying and pointless. I would go so far as to say that the game is only too easy if you choose to build decks with an unlimited draw mechanic, my suggested cure for this is limit the draw mechanic and you will find the game much more challenging.

First of all, I am not whining. People expressed high degrees of skepticism about the efficacy of a specific deck archetype. I'm attempting to show them that the deck does, in fact work well. Nothing about that can evenly vaguely be construed as whining

Second, I don't think I have ever said that the game is to easy. I have advocated for a restricted list that would include a very small number of cards (I proposed four). It would only be for tournament play and anyone could easily ignore it. And it would improve the overall quality of the game.

Finally, I will say, for the umpteenth time, that choosing not to play with specific cards doesn't solve the problem because of the way the game is developed and tested. Were not talking about a game that exist in a single moment, but how it evolves going forward.

EDIT: I would remind people that Nate French has already discussed that a restricted list is a possibility for the game should the need arise, so it should certainly be a topic one can discuss on the boards with generating hostility.

Bohemond, the comment about whining wasn't directed specifically at you. On the contrary ever since I have been reading and contributing to this forum I have always found your posts to be interesting and thought provoking and I appreciate them.

However I still don't really understand what you mean about the way the game is developed. As far as I can see, we as players get to choose what we include in or exclude from our decks. So it doesn't matter what cards are produced for player decks because we don't have to use them if we don't want to and if a quest is too easy we can change them.

Also at least for myself, this is just debate. I have nothing personally against anyone here. :)

Posted at

silverhand77 said:

Kobby said:

silverhand77 said:

Dam said:

7 to start off with (leaving only 43 to draw through), 9 per turn eventually (8 from Beravor + 1 each turn), that's 50+ cards in 5 turns by my math (9x5 = 45 + 7 = 52). Of course resources are an issue as is drawing all 3 UC, but then again, there is Ancient Mathom for 1 resource -> 3 cards. I've seen 35+ cards with Beravor + 2x UC in my games (vs Carrock of course, there is all the time in the world for hoarding cards during stage 1) in somewhere around 10 turns without fully optimising the draw as well (throwing a few cards for the other deck as well)

Yep I can see that your maths is correct. However I still don't think you could pull it off 8 consecutive times in a row especially with massing in the mix. You wouldn't have much time to hoard cards in massing.

Hi Silverhand77, I am the guy who plays with Glaurung and i can assure you we are not cheating.

the mechanics of the decks was already explained (i deck is protector and other one is control/quest), Massing is tricky in the first few turns (my estimation is 3-4) and after that you can prety much know if you are going to win or not, the trick is letting the Tactics/leadership deck be the 1st player. questing is done depending on draw (but usual quest value is 7-8) depending on how much we lose by we raise out threat (starting threat is 26 for the s/l and 29 for t/leadrship) you never reach 35 so you are safe for a round or 2 before next wave of enemies (Wainriders). starting of combat both snaga come to the spirit/lore deck and tactics/leadership get both wolves (he draws one and one goes automatically as he is the 1st player). Again you play now according to what you drew, for example if s/l deck can deal with the shadow effect Gimly can take an undefended attack (and then he can kill a wolf by himself) if t/l have sneak attack with Gandalf u can play it kill one and def against the other if you have feint or quick strike can use as well. on the spirit/lore front usually you take one or two undefended attacks (if you managed an unexpected courage or an ally and you Eleanor didnt cancel a shadow effect you have a potential of defending both) and then beravor kills one snaga. usually if you survive (8to 9 times out of 10 you will ) the rest is pretty much the same but easier as the staging area threat is lower, as you play your list of ally's is getting bigger and bigger as well as your hand (with the help if Beravor). must of the time after the initial 2-3 turns you wont have to deal with more than one enemy at a time and even if you do the t/l deck have enough sentinels that by then one is out and can help or the s/l dealing with it by itself.

resources issue is addressed by Theodred horn of Gondor and Steward of Gondor.

once you have Faramir is out its an easy cruise to the end. you don't even need to kill Witch King as both players will have enough questing value to do it in one go (Faramir and/or P.O Lorien makes sure of that).

Cheers

I can see what you mean about how your decks work. But please let me assure you I'm not accusing you of cheating, I just thought you might not be following the rules correctly or perhaps playing by a house rule, But I can see that you're not. Apologies for any misunderstanding around that.

Having said that, I do feel strongly that enjoyment of the game comes down to how we choose to play it. You guys are absolutely free to include or exclude and cards you want from your decks to make it harder and more challenging and therefore more enjoyable for yourselves. If your deck doesn't have an ulimited draw mechanic I believe you will find the challenge you are looking for. :)

I agree with you. We play now with Beravur ability as: limit once per turn. Mush more harder and interesting.

But from my point of view on the game and designers job: The game is good where is all cards good balanced and situations like this is just never happen. So my vote was from beginning on than forum: Hey FFG make your job better be cose you have very good Lotr game with very good idea so please keep ot on good level!!! make more interesting quest , make it more careful and more balanced cose this is they job. From beginning (6 months already) i talk about this crazy unlimited draw!!! OK now every one understand this is not fair and wrong.

Now next case is Northern tracker. In my opinion this card is destroy all fun and purpose of location mechanic in game.Who need to travel if you any way can destroy all location in staging area with 2-3 turns most of the time??? If you have tracker you dont need even look on location game text about active or travel effect. I think this also big broken. And game is more interesting and fun when you need to travel and face the location effect. This also make game more hard and im sure we definitely need that cose when you come to certain level of game experience you start to feel boring( game is quite limited for now).And this is wrong!!! When you switch to more proff level game should to give you next level of challenge but here after cool and amazing Osgiliant we start to get quest much more exiting( good Example is Emyn Muil) and Dead marches with DIfficult 5 doesn make me feel exiting as well.

Im sure FFG can to it much better!!!