Iron Hands: Only two successor chapters?

By Ralzar, in Deathwatch

Quoted from the Iron Hands previews last paragraph:

"Some claim that the Chapter’s hatred of the flesh represents the manifestation of a corruption in its gene seed, and certainly the Iron Hands Legion sired only two known Successor Chapters."

The article does not go on to mention what chapters it is talking about. Is this a blunder from FFG? Or is this how GW wants it to be? If so, which two chapters are "official"?

According the 40k wiki, there are 8 successor chapters: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands

Some of these seem to not have been mentioned often in the fluff though. The three most well documented chapters are The Sons Of Medusa, Steel Confessors and Brazen Claws.

Anyone have any opinions on which chapters are being referred to? Or if this is just an error?

I'm a little bit wary about a lot of the "canon" material presented on some of the 40k wikis out there - you often find that when you dig into their stuff a bit, it's either fan made material or accidental misinterpretation of the background. I'm not entirely certain about the 8 Iron Hands successors presented on the 40k wiki you mention; Lexicanum has three, and I'm more inclined to believe that wiki, even though it has its own issues.

That said, I do think that explicitly stating that the Iron Hands only has two successor chapters is not a great idea. Actually, I'm being unfair: the article does say KNOWN successor chapters. 40K writing generally includes a great deal of deliberate ambiguity. So there's certainly scope for other chapters having Iron Hands ancestry.

Personally, I think it makes sense that there would be about 10-20 overt Iron Hands Successor chapters and perhaps another 5 or 6 who are successors that don't know it. Those are my numbers, there's no canon source for them, but they just "feel" about right.

Good catch about it only referring to KNOWN chapters.

I'm betting it only means the Sons Of Medusa and Brazen Claws, since they both are chapters that have a decent amount of fluff and have been mentioned in relatively recent publications.

The Steel Confessors origins are probably classified, seeing as they were covertly created by the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Sneaking in here...

The Mentor Legion is an old school Iron Hands successor chapter ...

*sneaks out again*

Ralzar said:

Quoted from the Iron Hands previews last paragraph:

"Some claim that the Chapter’s hatred of the flesh represents the manifestation of a corruption in its gene seed, and certainly the Iron Hands Legion sired only two known Successor Chapters."

The article does not go on to mention what chapters it is talking about. Is this a blunder from FFG? Or is this how GW wants it to be? If so, which two chapters are "official"?

According the 40k wiki, there are 8 successor chapters: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Hands

Some of these seem to not have been mentioned often in the fluff though. The three most well documented chapters are The Sons Of Medusa, Steel Confessors and Brazen Claws.

Anyone have any opinions on which chapters are being referred to? Or if this is just an error?

I would not take that number too seriously as we don't really know if the FFG writer meant "two known Successor Chapters" or "two known Successor Chapters in 2nd Founding". Even if he DID mean the former, implying that there is only two known Successors Chapters in existence, then there is the issue of Sons of Medusa. According to Imperial Armoury Sons are not technically "Successor Chapter". They are a rebel element detached from the Iron Hands to prevent an inter-chapter civil war. They were given the status of independent Chapter a lot later, but are part of no official founding and their geneseed is exactly same as Iron Hands... So basically the FFG writer might have read all the same material than you did and IA10 to boot come to following conclusion:

Iron Hands have 2 confirmed successors chapters (Red Talons and Brazen Claws according to Lexicanum), 1 independent rebel element that has the formalized status of a chapter (Sons of Medusa) and 5 other unconfirmed successor chapters. Thats a total of two known Successor Chapters .

Hey, there, sneaky Wolf! Could you throw me a bone before you lope off: a reference for that Mentor chapter origin, if you please. Thanx, get of Fenris!

DW is set in a timeline before some of the recent happenings in 40k. That being said, the authors could defend their stand with... the other chapers have not been founded yet (does anyone have the exact dates of founding for each chapter)?

You are correct, Polaria. The Sons of Medusa are technically not a successor, they are a faction that was separated from the Iron Hands after the Moirae Schism.

Deathwatch is placed in 871.M41, the last founding (the 26th) was in 738.M41, so all chapters have been founded. It could be however, that some of the newer chapters are not up to battle strength yet. Something that takes up to 250 years (according to some sources). The dates of the foundings can be found here, in the Lexicanum (which is still the most reliable source for 40k fluff, the W40k wiki is not reliable at all...).

Woops! Watch Captain, you say the date is 871...isn't that 817? Or have things been moved along since last i checked?

Zappiel said:

Woops! Watch Captain, you say the date is 871...isn't that 817? Or have things been moved along since last i checked?

Yes, 817. Typing error...

Thanx for the clarification, brother! (or, should I say, Brother Captain!)