Can you please explain the ability of the Greatsword when it deals critical damage?

For example,if I hit for 11 damage and I have one critical do I deal 13 damage,one of them critical in total because the sword says when you deal critical you draw to wounds,you apply one of them as a critical and the other as a normal wound.

Sorry if I confused you.

Thanks in advance!

Greatsword of Hoeth

This mighty sword is seven feet long
from pommel to razor-sharp tip, and
of inhumanly elegant manufacture

Damage Rating: 6
Critical Rating: 2
Group: Great Weapon
Qualities: Two-Handed
Encumbrance: 7

The Greatsword of Hoeth is a
superior elf-crafted weapon; it
grants <w> to the dice pool of all
attacks made while a Sword Master
is wielding it.

When the Greatsword of Hoeth
deals critical damage, reveal two
critical wounds (from amongst the
total wounds inflicted) per critical
inflicted and choose one to apply
as a critical. Turn the other back
facedown as a normal wound.
If fewer wounds are inflicted than
necessary to allow the player to
reveal enough critical wounds,
then the player may draw additional
wounds from the wound deck
and discard the cards not chosen.
This ability does not increase total
wounds inflicted; it merely allows
the Sword Master greater choice
when inflicting criticals.

Seems obvious to me. It's effect is basically to make crits "better" by not just revealing them, but by revealing 2 and chosing the "worse" one. So just a probability-thing.

Oh and as for your example, I think it is:

draw 11 wounds, reveal 2, turn one back. So you end up with 10 normal wounds, 1 crit.

So,do you thing that the Greatsword of Hoeth is a little underpowered in comparison to the other two-handed weapons because it does 6 damage instead of seven?

No, because a better crit is worth more in most situations, I think.

Against henchman you even make more damage, if you are able to chose a higher severity rating.

And in all other situations you can chose crits that really affect the enemy. So, of course, it is a bit dependent on chance, but I feel it is "deadlier".

And keep in mind that it is superior quality and you get it for free.

As socratim said. The GSoH is actually slightly superior to a normal great weapon, despite having 1 less damage.

Choice of critical vs an enemy is not to be overlooked.

Hitting a Black Orc and inflicting a critical that does +1 Misfortune to Fel checks is worthless. Being able to choose between that or +1 misfortune to all Strength checks (or what have you) can be very useful.

I beg to differ with the above. A "normal" great weapon hits EVERY time for 7 damage. So every successful attack action made by the player will hit for 7+modifiers. On the other hand in order to activate the Greatsword's of Hoeth "superiority" the player MUST hit for critical damage (that's from my experience less than 50% possibility. Consider also that Way of the Sword actions don't activate critical damage by themselves) . Also, you are claiming that choosing the critical is very important. OK I agree with that. But consider this: The choice given is between 1 black dice in Fel checks or 1 black dice in Int checks while fighting a black orc. Does the choice really matter? Or consider this : The choice given is between 1 black dice in Str checks or 1 black dice in everything that involves it's sight. Now does the choice matter? In both cases the choice of the critical wound is trivial.

My point is this: If the ability of the greatsword is what you claim it to be it relies TOO much on luck to be considered superior than a normal greatsword. My advice to MoonShadow is to judge for himself. In my campaign I altered the sword to deal 7 damage just like any other great weapon.

I give my players the options of simply applying the severity of the crtical as additonal wounds rather than the written effect - don't have rulebooks with me, but think this is the default rule for critcals and hence men, isn't it?

I changed it to dam 7, but also made Swordmaster an advances career.

In line with how I made Shieldbreakers, becoming both careers not only means first going through a basic career, but getting the "gear" involves a quest.

Apart from how powerful you deem the sword, I don't understand, why it would have to be as powerful as other weapons. Even if it was clearly a worse weapon than other 2hd weapons, I would not change it, because after all it's a roleplaying game. And it is a ritual weapon, you are granted for your job. So this is fluff. My own group loses the focus quite often and tries to max out their characters. But I don't encourage that and have never played like this as a player.

As for houseruling it to use the henchman-mechanic on single enemies, also, I like it and am pondering on making this an option for all weapons.

socratim said:

I do that for all weapons, not just the Sword.... on nemisis (nemisi?) it may be interesting to apply crticials literally but for standard fights getting rid of NPCs is all that really counts!

I think the rules seem pretty good, it’s about choice and style.

A great sword might do more damage, but it’s not better suited to an elf.

The Sword Master Career is a package, so what it might lose out for in the weapon 'utility' it will make up for in other areas and niche situations.

I don't see why the weapon should be 'better' than a normal great weapon.

Sure its Elven made, but that means it’s just sharper and lighter... Isn't that reflected in the rules?

It’s not a munchkin game, it’s a roleplay game.

Personally I like the rules (as much as I dislike Elves ) they are in keeping with the diversity that WRFP brings to your every day gaming. The game is made a lot of fun, simply because there are these little rules and play style twists all over the place, its less “I rolled a 6... I have 4 Str, I do 10 damage, the monster dies” and builds a better mental image of the battle.

Also crit’s are a hell of a lot better than they used to be, due to permanent injury cards. Imagine how awesome it would be to see a normal crit of -1 to Fel check on that Orc, then flip the Swordmaster crit and see "Permanent Injury, lose an arm!".

Aragorn2 said:

A difference of 1 damage per hit really isn't that big, honestly, when you are talking 6vs7. Also keep in mind that the GSoH gets an additional [W], which means it is also more likely to succeed and to do better increased success lines. Also, an increased chance to score additional boons, which means an increased chance of scoring a critical. I'll add that, as I recall (I don't have my stuff here with me), the GSoH also has a lower critical rating than a normal Great Weapon. Most enemies don't seem to survive more than 2 or 3 hits from a SM anyway, so you're really only talking 1-2 additional wounds.

I agree that for some criticals, the difference between them won't necessarily make a difference. In my experience, though, a lot of the time, it will. Especially if you use the Severe Criticals from Omens of War. As mentioned also, henchmen (and sometimes other NPCs if the GM wants) use the critical severity rating as additional wounds. That could potentially be at least 1 more wound, if not more, making up for the 1 pt difference and then some. Honestly, the majority of the time my player SM criticals the two criticals were different enough to choose one over the other. That said, my player SM can do high amounts of damage with his GSoH, such that one more wound per hit is pretty insignificant (he probably averages around 18-20)

Referring to the Way of The Sword actions makes no difference, and a useless argument. Anyone can use those, and SM can use non 'Way' actions. A SM wielding a GSoH could easily pick up attack actions that DO have increased chances of scoring criticals if they want.

@scrubless: The GSoH is a Superior quality weapon, made by the finest elven smiths. Which is why it gets the additional [W] to attacks. If a PC can afford (and find a master weaponsmith to make, and wait many months/years for it) then they too could have a Greatweapon that adds a [W] (which would then increase the relative 'power' of a normal Greatweapon over the GSoH).

The GSoH is a FREE weapon that has many advantages, making it on-par with a typical Greatweapon in effectiveness, as well as interesting.

dvang said:

I'm on your side there

Its a great career feature getting a FREE Superior Crafted weapon, sure the Shield Breaker bonus is better .. mmm gromril plate. But still its neat, I didn't get any shiny items with my starting career Barber Surgeon, so the swordmaster should count himself lucky! (Well OK he's still an elf, so not that lucky)

dvang said:

That's really all there is to it. It's a trapping for a career, it's free, and on par with great weapons, but created for a more slender race. Who says it has to be over-powered?

Nisses,

I think the point that some people are trying to say is that they believe it is underpowered compared to a normal Greatweapon. They say this because a normal GW has a Dmg of 7, while the GSoH has a Dmg of 6.

I was refuting that concept, and provided the myriad of bonuses/perks that bring it to at least on par in effectiveness with a normal GW IMO.

I should have put more text in there, but was on my mobile...

When I say: on par but for a more slender race, I meant:

even though the DR is lower, the little perks as you say, bring it on par.

sorry for any confusion

vicious supeior great weapon is almost the same thing(have to take highest serverity) but with one more point of damage. so there is room for upgrade

thought hoeth greatsword is more about a finely crafted edge rather than a jaggered ripping brutal one

I really think its a misprint.

Point 1: Similar but reversed stats

GSoH : DR 6 Enc 7

GW: DR 7 Enc 6

Point 2: Flavour

Elves are not known for their brutish approach to warfare. Elegance and speed are more attuned to elves. I can't remember anything made by elves heavier than the same thing made by man.

Point 3: Iron Breaker

The Iron Breaker's armor, which comes in the same set, is a really big deal. So why would the elven counter part be up to snuff. No one can argue that Gromril Armour is not extremely, almost unfairly, better then its none magical counter part. But people ARE arguing about the merits of the GSoH in this thread.

For these reasons I'm reversing the DR and Enc stats in my games. Trouble is… No one in my group is playing a Swordman right now

I wouldn't mind boosting the sword, giving it fast qual and whatever, to me the downside lies in the roleplaying aspect of being that tied to an inanimate object.

Same to me in regards of the iron-breaker. I don't really mind my players killing everything, and being un-killable, if…:

- They roleplay it well.

- We don't have two characters with same purpose. But players are smart, and will find their own niche, and then it's up to the GM to give that niche as much attention (not necesarily time) as the other chars niche'.

And this is also up to the characters really. They have to avoid trying to compete in some twisted arms race, so if you have a bright wizard and a swordmaster, both competing in the damage race, one of them has to go a different route, not another route, but flavour it a bit. For example the bright wizard could focus on area damage, or the swordmaster could become an envoy retaining his lethal skills, but… well you know

I really hate balance amongst characters, because no such thing actually exists. The group are not together because of each individual having some unique skill, but because unity makes you stronger