Forcing the Truth is from Jade Emperor, so hopefully get the new pack there soon.

Mr. David Pan is a great character. I have been running Pan alongside Veronica Frost to make him immune to trigger effects while at the story. Since you will be relying on Pan's ability to succeed at the story and avoid nastiness from the terror and combat struggles it is important that you protect him from sniper Events.

Forcing the Truth is uber. It might be interesting to try this card out with Smugglers...

Gun Runners Club is great if your cost curve is low so you are playing 2-3 cards from hand per turn. I took a sample from my most recent Mono Syndicate build:

Cost-Number of cards

1-9

2-27

3-10*

4-1

X-3

* Technically Extortionist costs 2 but I never play him for less than 3 because his trigger effect is what makes him worthwhile.

With this cost scheme the deck is playing 3 Cards or 2 Cards+Torch Singer ability beginning as early as turn 2. Worse case scenario is that I need to wait until their draw phase to trigger Gun Club. It is even more reliable when played alongside ST-bounce because you are popping extra cards back into your opponent's hand.

Argh! Why does it have to take so long for FFG stuff to reach here! I really want my hands on those new cards

I've made up a prototype deck to test. It's a bit bigger than 50 cards, but that's fine because my main goal at this point is to experiment with it and see which cards I tend to find less useful, then they can be cut out.

Question for you guys... Have you ever used Blackball Jim? On the surface he doesn't immediately impress me, but with Investigation plus his special ability he does have the potential to rack up a lot of success tokens. I'm just not sure how often that ability might be useful though. For now I threw in 2 copies to try him out - if he doesn't pull his weight then I'll just cut him or replace him with something else.

I've also managed to talk my wife into trying the game. Not sure how often she'll want to play (probably not that much), but it's still a good sign. I'm supposed to make her up an Agency deck to try out - she said she prefers "real people" over "monsters" and I think they're the easiest human faction to start with.

I have thought about using Blackball Jim couple of times, but always found something more suitable considering my playstyle. Basically he is pretty good, but, the ability is much too conditional and involves too many if's and planning to pull off consistently. You would have to always leave a big domain undrained and hope that opponent has left an undrained domain on the board, all the while knowing that Jim is on the playingfield. I prefer more simpler and direct cards that handle their task consistently, unless it's a bizarre combo deck of course....

And yeah, Agency is great for beginners. Simple, yet powerful.

Shangfu said:

Shangfu said:

My thought was that if your opponent is scared to leave a domain open, then you've essentially shut down his ability to play Events or use Abilities that require a domain. If they do keep one open, they have to worry about you using it to grab an extra success token. Sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of pressure on them. We'll have to see how well that actually works out in practice though...

The other thought was that Syndicate seems like they need to work on winning as quickly as possible, at least in my limited understanding of them. They can't stand up to Terror or Combat from other factions well, sooner or later there are going to be too many characters out there for you to suppress them all with Exhaustion and tricks. So anything that grabs an extra success token is more interesting for Syndicate than it is for other factions I think. Granted, I could go to a Neutral card but for the purpose of teaching my wife the game I wanted to keep things as simple as possible at first, as well as make sure things weren't going to be too rough for her Agency deck. Maybe try Dabbler in the Unknown or Moving the Scenery later?

Or I could just be wrong and Syndicate isn't as much of a desperate race as they appear.

The problem is that opponent can still leave domains undrained during their turn if they have something to use during opponents turn, as they will propably have used the card before Story Phase ends. This way Jim just forces opponents to change their gameplan a little, but not much. But by all means try him, as i have never used him in a deck so he might actually be much better than i think.

Played a trial game with my wife last night. She's a beginner to CoC but I tried to advise her as we went along and remind her of her abilities, etc... She's usually pretty sharp about card games in general though so I have no doubt she'll pick it up if she decides she likes it.

Didn't get to play Blackball Jim at all. Lousy Agency were gunning us from the start and I couldn't afford him. I drew one copy early on, but after she Shotgun Blasted Johnny V's Dame I felt like it would be a while before I could pay 3 for him and David Pan was a higher priority so he ended up being resourced.

Tough game, but Syndicate won it 3-2. Basically we couldn't compete with their characters, she had a fair amount of investigation going and a lesser amount of combat up until Beneath the Burning Sun hit the table. A couple guys had Springfields, and a Police Headquarters came out and started exhausting my guys. It's pretty much a card designed to hose Syndicate, maybe I shouldn't have given it to her But, we trussed one cop up with Bound & Gagged and relied heavily on an assortment of events to exhaust or remove characters from stories to run unopposed and that ended up carrying the day.

It did end up feeling like a race against time. The other player is going to add new characters periodically. I can't remove them very well, so it's going to get worse and worse the further we get into the game. Therefore our best shot is to claim victory as quickly as possible I think.

Sounds like a good first game. Not too onesided and plenty of action and exitement. And yeah, Agency definitely is hard to beat with typical Syndicate trickery unless you are able to finish off opponent fast....

Yeah, it was a pretty good game. Mr. David Pan was my savior, he's pretty nasty as long as you can keep your skill up. I'd better work on learning Syndicate faster than she can ramp up with Agency though or I'll be in trouble

Here's the deck I was using:

Characters:
2xPatsy
3xAnarchist
2xClover Club Torch Singer
3xDanny O'Bannion's Crony
2xExtortionist
2xHard Case
3xJohnny V's Dame
2xLady Lu Chu
3xTattoo Artist
2xBlackball Jim
3xFixer
2xMr. David Pan
2xNassor

Events:
3xForcing the Truth
3xKidnapping 101
2xLow Blow
3xPanic

Support:
3xBound and Gagged
2xAlhazred Lamp
2xDutch Courage
2xGun Runner's Club

And the Agency deck:

Characters:
2xAgency Medic
3xNew Recruit
3xBlackwood File Clerk
3xFemme Fatale
2xRepo Man
2xUndercover Security
3xBorder Patrol Guard
3xEducated Officer
2xInspector Li Flint
3xShadow Team
2xSteve Clarney
2xTrial Judge

Events:
2xOut of the Darkness
2xTorch the Joint!
2xShotgun Blast

Support:
2xBeneath the Burning Sun
2xHand Restraints
2xShotgun
2xSpringfield M1903
2xDynamite
2xG-AAMX
2xPolice Headquarters

How about Expendable Muscle for Syndicate? Character and Support card both in one, has been very effective for me thus far. Nullifies both Terror and Combat nicely Clover Club Bouncer could also bring down the average character cost in the deck a bit and can stop first attacks without even joining in on the fight.

Ok, even though the new AP hasn't yet arrived, here's the deck i'm gonna build when i get hold of the new cards.

SYNDICATE OF THE SILVER TWILIGHT

Characters: (30)
2x•Mr. David Pan, Red Pole ->(Works great with Clover Club duo)
3xClover Club Bouncer ->(Skill reduction)
3xClover Club Torch Singer ->(Skill reduction)
3xExpendable Muscle ->(Generally helpful and adds survivability)
3xTriggerman ->(Amazing versatile beater)
1x•Lord Jeffrey Farrington, Mysterious Benefactor ->(Bouncing, too bad restricted.....)
2xHigh Wizard of the Order ->(More bouncing)
3xInitiate of Huang Hun ->(This guy is just insane. Massive board control)
3xLodge Barkeep ->(Lock up the best opposing character)
3xLodge Housekeeper ->(Safeguard against Support cards)
2xProtector of Secrets ->(Works great with Initiate)
2x•Mentor to Vaughn, Without Equal ->(Turns extra domains into exhaust effects)

Events: (11)
3xForcing the Truth ->(More versatile than Low Blow i think)
3xIntimidate ->(More Exhaustion)
2xKidnapping 101 ->(Story Phase trickery, useful in right situations)
3xPanic ->(Essential!)

Support: (9)
2x•The Seventh House on the Left, Avoid at all Costs ->(More exhaustion/lockdown effects)
3xBound and Gagged ->(Lockdown....)
2xDutch Courage ->(Makes Characters more durable against surprises)
2xGun Runner's Club ->(Card Draw engine to fuel the deck)

The idea is to bounce, exhaust, skill reduce and lock opponents to run safely for stories and win. Needs maybe a bit more cheaper 1-drop characters, but then again, i really don't want to cut anything from the deck so have live with slower first turn..... Support cards will be problematic, as the deck does not have anything to deal with those. Also, quick swarm rushes might overwhelm the deck easily, as i have focused more on slower control game rather than cheap rush. And seriously, Initiate Of Huang Hun will be SO broken..... o_O

So, what does everyone think?

I'm thinking about trying Thief for Hire actually. Agency has some nice 1-cost attachments, why shouldn't my mobsters be swiping their Shotguns, Springfields, or Dynamites? I agree that I could use another cost-1 character, but somehow Clover Club Bouncer just doesn't seem that great to me with no icons, skill 1, and a relatively small ability. True, he can be a combo piece with Mr. David Pan or some of our Events/Supports that go off of skill but 1 point isn't always enough. Clover Club Torch Singer seems to do the job much better for +1 cost.

I'll probably also switch from Low Blow to Intimidate since it's cheaper, might help speed up the deck just slightly.

I like your idea of putting Mentor to Vaughn into the list for more exhaustion, but I want to avoid Neutrals for another game or two before expanding on the resource mechanic to show how it deals with multiple factions.

I'll comment more after I get a chance to read the Silver Twilight cards and see exactly what they do - not very familiar with those guys yet.

You can try or disregard these ideas as you wish:

Add x3 Intimidate

Get rid of x2 Lamp for x2 Seventh House

I notice you have 51 cards and with the addition of x3 Intimidate you have space for 27 Characters to level it off at 50 so let's make them count:

Exchange x2 Patsy, x2 Lady Lu Chu, and x2 Nasor for x3 Clover Club Bouncer and x3 Hired Muscle

Exchange x2 Blackball Jim for x1 Torch Singer and x1 Extortionist

Get Rid of x3 Danny O's Crony and x3 Fixer

Add x2 Veronica Frost because you need some protection for Mr. Pan against snipers

Now you have a 27-14-9 card spread. Win it fast or you're dead!

SIde note: Since your partner is playing Agency you are good for now but against any real meta change x3 Anarchist to x3 Triggerman because Willpower is more useful than Fast overall.

I'll have to see if I miscounted anything, I had thought there were 50 cards. It must be one of the characters because there's supposed to be 30 of them. I'll hit the rest of them point by point.

Add x3 Intimidate: I'm definitely going to put these in, initially I think they'll replace the Low Blows. I'm willing to try fewer characters, probably I'll try to get a couple of games both ways and see how it goes.

Get rid of x2 Lamp for x2 Seventh House: The problem here is that I don't have Kingsport Dreams yet so no 7th House. As soon as I pick it up it's definitely going into the deck. That's fine, I'm perfectly alright with tuning the deck over time. I'm thinking that to ease my wife into the customization aspect we'll implement a rule that after each game you can change out up to 3 cards or something roughly like that. So nothing too wild, but you can swap something for something else or remove a card you don't like.

Exchange x2 Patsy, x2 Lady Lu Chu, and x2 Nassor for x3 Clover Club Bouncer and x3 Hired Muscle: I agree on Nassor, he's simply too expensive to get out without more cost reducers which we don't have. Syndicate ain't Shub, that's for sure! Hired Muscle looks good, I've got no beef with him. Lu Chu was mainly for a chance to stand up to someone else with Combat but I can see going without her - you just rely more on the combat-avoiding tricks. Patsy's just in to be cheap and buy me some time if I need it, but I'd still like to try Thief for Hire as well. I'll at least keep an eye out in my games and try to spot opportunities where -1 Skill would really pay off on something.

Exchange x2 Blackball Jim for x1 Torch Singer and x1 Extortionist: I've only got 2 copies of the Core set so far, so this one's going to have to wait.

Get Rid of x3 Danny O's Crony and x3 Fixer: Can you explain your reasoning on this one? Fixer seems like a good deal for a 1 cost character which is what he'll usually end up being since you've got some attachments of your own and I don't mind holding him a turn or resourcing if it doesn't seem to be working out. Danny O has one job, to exhaust himself so I can ready someone better. My thinking is that this means I can send my good characters to stories and still have those same good characters available to defend on their turn, or I can mitigate exhaustion effects from the other side like Police Headquarters, etc... I'm open to looking at replacements but I need to understand better what makes the other characters better. I'd have no problem cutting Danny O down to 2 copies at least though, I don't think you need 3 of him.

Add x2 Veronica Frost because you need some protection for Mr. Pan against snipers: I can see him being a valuable character worthy of protection, but how much does she really offer? She can only protect him at stories, and to do so she has to commit to the same one. Still, she's not a bad character on an icons-per-cost basis so she can probably be fit in somewhere. Would just packing a 3rd copy of David Pan be worth looking at as an alternative - giving him an additional "life" and making him more reliable to draw early? Might be another way to make sure he stays in play.

I've been thinking about the speed issue, and you might be right that Syndicate can run fewer characters and a greater number of events and/or support. I'll have to think about that some more and maybe try some deck adjustments. Thanks for the tips!

After looking at your deck again I can see why you like some of the Characters like Fixer and Danny O. I use Veronica becasue I do not want Pan taken out from under me after I enter a story assuming he will win it with skill. In the end you know better than anyone how you deck plays and how you want to play it. I was just throwing out suggestions based on how I like to play Syndicate.

Wow, it s after 3am on the west coast and we have been gaming all night. I will check in tomorrow but I better sign off now before I start talking crazy sleep deprived stuff...

To clarify, I'm not really intending to reject any suggestions - rather my goal is to understand them. You're more experienced than I so I expect your choices are going to be good ones, but I won't necessarily get the most out of them unless I know why they were picked. In some cases where I felt that certain cards had merit, I'd like to know more about why you think a card should be removed as well - such as the case of the Fixer for instance.

"In the end you know better than anyone how your deck plays and how you want to play it."

Actually, being that this is the first time I've played this deck AND the first time I've played Syndicate as well, I'm not sure I have much idea either

I'm working on discovering that though. One thing I know I really like is the unpleasant surprises we have from cards like Kidnapping 101 and the various ways we have from keeping enemy characters out of the way through exhaustion, Bound & Gagged, etc...

I think these are the major one's in question:

Crony: SInce Syndicate Characters tend to be fragile I tend to go more for simplicity. If you want someone better then Triggerman costs 2 and already has Investigate and Combat, also Willpower (anti-insanity/monster fu).

Fixer: With rare exceptions I do not like running Attachment. The reason is that if your opponent has any way of destroying the Character they get to kill 2 cards with 1 card. I do not like giving up card advantage unless it is part of a gambit I am in control of that will help me win the game faster. To give you examples of card attachments that are clearly good: Infernal Obsession because you take control of something they already paid for and they will need to pay something again to kill the character or destroy the attachment. Kopesh: You are able to kill a bunch of them before they can touch the Character (I also have a great combo using this card that provides HUGE wounding potential). Fixer also does not have icons or abilities that are focused on a quick evasion win strategy like: Investigate, High Skill, Toughness, Willpower.

Pan-Frost: To be honest Pan is so new I am still toying with how best to play him (I am actually running x3 to get him as fast as possible). My thought about Frost is that if you are going into a story with Pan you are doing it opposed against defenders who will most likely destroy you in a fair fight. If Pan gets removed everything falls apart in this scenario. I am experimenting with Frost because she provides protection for Pan against almost anything your opponent can throw at you. This is still in the experimental stages but so far the two seem to make a good team, with Torch Singer or Tattoo Artist manipulating skill.

Additional Notes

Clover Club Bootlegger seems like a great card that I have not found a use for yet. If Syndicate ever gets the ability to commit to stories twice in the same turn, like they did in the ccg with Burning the Midnight Oil, he would be awesome.

Panic: To set this up as a game winner make sure you have the necessary stories won and tokens placed to win the game on one turn if unapposed. Allow your opponent's Characters to Exhaust into and succeed at stories on their turn as long as it does not disrupt your plan above. During your story phase you commit your Characters. During the Action window before they commit defenders play your skill debuffs and then Panic. They should all be exhausted and cannot defend so your characters will be unapposed FTW! Warning: people will likely give you hate looks when you do this...

I think Bootlegger works just fine as a character that can commit both on yours and your opponents turn. Then again, Burning The Midnight Oil would make him totally awesome. I really hope they reprint that card someday. But.... could this work also with Hidden Agenda?

Tokhuah said:

I would add Bound & Gagged to the list of good attachments, it's a lot like a permanent exhaustion and it's on an enemy character so no 2-for-1. Also, the attachments don't have to be yours, it works on enemy attachments as well. I realize that it's risky to rely on what your opponent does but it doesn't seem like it should be too rare, and you can have Bound & Gagged to fall back on.

I do see what you mean about the 2-for-1, I got nailed with that when my character carrying Alhazred's Lamp got killed and I may end up replacing that card. Well, also I made a bad choice on who to give it to (Johnny V's Dame). By giving it to my cost reducer I made a clearly very valuable character when I could have at least given them a hard choice on who to Shotgun Blast.

I think you're essentially arguing that going head to head with characters playing as Syndicate is a losing proposition, and to an extent I think I have to agree with that. You're going to want to concentrate on tricks to make the other side unable to compete and win stories while they're unable to resist. I'm kind of viewing certain cards like Fixer or Dutch Courage as a hedge, in case I can't fend them off completely - at least I can stand up to them somewhat, maybe at one story, or I can keep my characters alive a bit longer. I see that Fixer doesn't have quick win attributes, but he still seems like a good deal if you can get him for 1.

Anyway, hoping to get some more test games in tonight or tomorrow. If I can, I'll try a couple of deck variations and see what seems to work better.

Yes, Hidden Agenda would work if you were running a mixed Syndicate/Silver Twilight deck and this could provide an instant-win sort of combo if you got all the pieces lined up with enough characters.

dboeren said:

Hmmm, i would propably try that in a deck if i weren't already happy with my Agency/Order deck. But if they end up banning/restricting/adding errata to Initiate Of Huang Hun, i might give that plan a try.

Tokhuah said:

Finally, if you're putting Expendable Muscle in your deck, you're also quite likely to eventually have an attachment in play

In other words: I think Fixer is a good weenie card.

Tried a second game last night and we mobbed all over the cops.

There were two main factors going on that allowed this:

1. I had a really nice draw, getting just the things I wanted around the time I wanted them

2. My wife missed a vital piece of information on one of her cards. She drew Beneath the Burning Sun and didn't realize what the bit at the bottom meant that all <agency symbol> characters gain a Combat icon. She didn't recognize the symbol and didn't want to let me know what card she had to ask about it, so ended up resourcing it. Bottom line, we had more combat icons than she did and she missed this chance to turn the tide (she also failed to draw any weapons that game - I checked her resources and hand afterward).

Two other things that helped were that I got Johnny V's Dame early, resulting in my second turn dropping three cost-2 characters into play. First her, then a Criminal discounted to 1, and then a 3rd (resources were 2-2-1).

The other was that I played Gun Runner's Club on Turn 1 (along with a Patsy), and really got good use out of it. By waiting until you've played some cards out of your hand you've got a better chance of getting your hand size below your opponents - plus she got stalled a bit by going 3-1-1 instead of 2-2-1 early on so her hand was bigger than it might have been. Anyway, I was able to draw from it pretty much every turn.

I mostly drew characters and not many events, so I went with that. Lady Lu Chu proved to be a great solo defender, and I was able to afford Nassor without too much issue either.

I think we need to take a step back and go over the cards in her deck in a little more detail so she can understand more about when one card is better than another before the next game, but I was happy with how the boys performed character-on-character this time. We even got out a Dutch Courage later in the game so they weren't going to be going anywhere in a hurry.

I got in four more games with my Syndicate deck last night at the game store. I've made two changes in the deck:

Low Blow -> Intimidate (cheaper)
Blackball Jim -> Elite Hit Squad (chosen somewhat at random, see if the high skill pays off)

My opponent played a variety of decks using Hastur, Yog, and Agency.

Three out of four games were quick victories for Syndicate, the fourth game was a loss to Yog. I probably could have put up a better fight if I'd remembered the mulligan rule, my initial hand was very poor on characters and Yog is pretty good at character removal. He also had a fair amount of Terror which we couldn't do much about since we didn't have enough characters in play to suck it up and let someone go insane while still making story progress. Maybe I need to look at Triggerman or Expandable Muscle again...

I also ordered a copy of Kingsport Dreams so once that comes in I'll figure out how to squeeze in 7th House.

A lot of significant characters never showed up all night. I never once had in play David Pan or Fixer, but we did fine without them - just alternate ways to the same goal. Hard Case was quite handy, and on several occasions I kept him in my hand when I could have played him - just to make sure that things kept working well and we could get enemy characters out of the way when needed. Danny O'Bannion's Crony was also golden, I used his ability nearly every turn he was in play and the ability to add Investigation to anyone I wanted was of great help in picking up some extra story tokens. He combos well with cards like Forcing the Truth. I exhaust your guy, restore Crony, then exhaust Crony and restore the guy I really want only now he has extra icons. My opponent hated him.

Anyway, I felt like I collected some good impressions and am planning on some more modifications. Nassor's coming out, probably Alhazred Lamp as well, and I'm going to pick out some replacements later today. Patsy may come out as well. I just haven't needed his ability so far. Either things are going so well that he's insult to injury, or we're getting stomped and all he's going to do is put a slight roadbump in and extend the game one turn. Extending the game is rarely to Syndicate's benefit I think...