from france
i begun the reading of the novels about the word bearer the first heretic in his french edition and for me something is wrong the book said one hundred and thousans warrior. can somone confirme me after reading the book that the word bearere were 10.000 or 100.000 strong.
is it a mistake in the translation?
150,000 at the time of Horus Heresy, according to Lexicanum
from france
thank
so it is one of the largest legion at this time?
From the First Heretic, it is 100,000 Battle Brothers (this does not include Chaplains, Captains, Chapter Masters, and other Officers)
You must remember that these are the legions, not chapters.
And yes, at the time of the heresy, the Word Bearers were the second largest legion. Only the Ultramarines out numbers them and the reasoning to that is mentioned within the novel.
Noctus-Cornix said:
From the First Heretic, it is 100,000 Battle Brothers (this does not include Chaplains, Captains, Chapter Masters, and other Officers)
You must remember that these are the legions, not chapters.
And yes, at the time of the heresy, the Word Bearers were the second largest legion. Only the Ultramarines out numbers them and the reasoning to that is mentioned within the novel.
I haven't read the books but it's easy to figure, the Ultramarines realm had 8 star systems as opposite to usually one planet like the other legions. =D
No, not true. If you would like to hear what is actually stated in the book, read further.
SPOILER--------------
At one point in the story, one of the word bearer's mentions 'we all know what happened to the Ultramarines and their sudden swell in numbers...'
His chaplain quickly rebuked him stating that it was just a rumor.
The marine calmly shurged and said that it was odd how both of the legions disappeared and each time the Ultramarines' numbers swelled considerably and their kingdom nearly doubled.
This blatantly suggests to the idea that after the death of the second and eleventh primarches, the Emperor entrusted what was left of those two legions to Roboute and since Black Library and Games Workshop aren't exactly the most subtle companies, this can more likely be taken as a fact.
Noctus-Cornix said:
This blatantly suggests to the idea that after the death of the second and eleventh primarches, the Emperor entrusted what was left of those two legions to Roboute and since Black Library and Games Workshop aren't exactly the most subtle companies, this can more likely be taken as a fact.
No offense as I haven't read the books yet but this sounds more like a way for the author to try to explain what happened to the two missing legions, and quite frankly it doesn't makes much sense. As far as we know this kind of things doesn't happen.. It's like the Dark Angels merging with the Imperial Fist or something..Not only their tradition as so forth are totally different, but their very gene-seed is. Why people (as in the author or these books) can't let the two missing legions just missing, it's much more interesting and mysterious this way. Beside, as the quote says itself, it's just a rumor =D
No, been in control of 8 star system is the reason why they had the bigger legion. While not all of them were yet part of the Ultramar kingdom they relationship between said system was very much like the Romans and their neighborhood in the early days of the republic.
Lucius Valerius said:
No, been in control of 8 star system is the reason why they had the bigger legion.
I disagree. The real limiting factor on the size of a Chapter/Legion is availability of geneseed, not the ever plentiful human populations.
from france
i know that they are legion and not chapter. but for me they were 10.000 thousand strong or fewer. well after more than 15 years of gaming i supose that stil can be surprise. well they are a lot of syrprise in the horus heresy books. but i never heard that the remaning two lost legions were absorbed by the ultramarines.
so for me no what you said is just your opinion andn gw may not be the most subtle compagny but their author since they have begun novels are.
harlokin said:
Lucius Valerius said:
No, been in control of 8 star system is the reason why they had the bigger legion.
I disagree. The real limiting factor on the size of a Chapter/Legion is availability of geneseed, not the ever plentiful human populations.
Back then, and in theory even in 41M, availability of the gene-seed isn't that much of an issue, it's the number of people that can actually been implanted with the implants and survive said operation that matters.
The big problem is that a lot of numbers and facts have been retconned and that there are also a lot of discrepancies between the current novels and older HH sources. The same goes for a lot of 40K material. Luckily it usually are things not that important.
Noctus-Cornix said:
This blatantly suggests to the idea that after the death of the second and eleventh primarches, the Emperor entrusted what was left of those two legions to Roboute and since Black Library and Games Workshop aren't exactly the most subtle companies, this can more likely be taken as a fact.
ADB has explicitly stated over on B&C and Warseer that this explanation is just meant to be a rumor made by a pair of Word Bearers to try and explain the sudden swell in the size of the Ultramarines, who numbered close to 250,000 marines. It is not to be taken as fact as to what happened to the lost legions.
The main explanation for the vastly varying size of the legions, from 10,000 up to 250,000 is differences in the primarchs command styles. Guilliman is said to be an expert at organization and logistics, so commanding a huge legion isn't an issue. Other legions had various problems in their past like the Thousand Sons and the Emperor's Children and so had to maintain smaller sized legions. The Thousand Sons were one of the smallest legions at "only" 10,000 marines.
Noctus-Cornix said:
The marine calmly shurged and said that it was odd how both of the legions disappeared and each time the Ultramarines' numbers swelled considerably and their kingdom nearly doubled.
This blatantly suggests to the idea that after the death of the second and eleventh primarches, the Emperor entrusted what was left of those two legions to Roboute and since Black Library and Games Workshop aren't exactly the most subtle companies, this can more likely be taken as a fact.
Actually I have read (but can't seem to recall my source) that the legions for the MIA (Missing in Action) primarchs was designed by GW. This is to allow players to come up with their successor chapters and/or chaos warband. Perhaps the swelling of the ultramarines was meant to support this. On the loyalist front, it seems to suggest that Since Gulliman split his legion into Chapters, there could be many successor chapters that players can imagine and create. This decision in turn seems to encourages players to personalise their own chapters.
What you said. The 2 lost primarch where DYO chapter/legion.
13th founding was also DYO chapter.
From all i have read about SM and Horus heresy, the world bearer are 150.000 when the war begin, Ultramarines are 300.000.
Fo the two lost legions it is more or less explain that the SM who was made for the two missing primarch had been put in the Ultramarine legion.
Even if it's true that the SM are made at their Primarch Image, the first marines where raised and made on Terra long before their meeting with their lost fathers. the first real legion SM where those made with the follower of the Primarchs on their home world.
It's only what i've understand about the story so far.
in my 23 yrs the only place i have found mention if the ultramarines getting the two lost legions is in the adb novel and as has been stated he refers to it as that a rumour, nothing concrete there have been several theories including that they were never found as they are in some corner the emperor never got to. another is that they became so warped by there abduction that they ahd to be put down.
I personally wouldn't get too excited about the odd rumour cropping up in a Black Library novel. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the writes have been told by GW that they can't offer any concrete explanations for the missing two legions, but they can have characters speculate in-game with a variety of entertaining rumours to keep us all guessing.
It's called plot hooks and DYO Legion/chapter. A lot of the 40k fluff is left open so you can have a this guy form that place leads that army and it will fit in the fluff.