Hi all,

My pal and I have really been enjoying the core set and Asylum packs, have come across 4 unclear issues in our first 10 or so games.

I am posting this to see what a general consensus is on resolution.

1) A few cards have forced responses like "Tap a ready criminal" or "destroy an ancient one" to bring into play. Does this have to be a creature on the side of the player summoning, or can those effects be applied to an opponents character? We have been playing where the effect can only be used on the summoning players characters.

2) what are a single alaskan Sledge dog attributes, 1 skull and 2 skill, based on the card text? That is how we played after a few looks over the text.

3) There is an agency character with a toughness of 3, and the response, "when he takes a wound, choose and wound another character." As he takes the 3rd wound, can he use his response as a parting shot on his way to the discard pile?

4) This is the tough one. My opponent took control of one of my creatures with an event. it states that he takes and commits it to a story until story is resolved. So he put it up against my own creature that destroyed the "stolen" card. The "stolen" card had the effect that when it goes to the discard pile, choose and wound an opponents card. Since the rules state that all cards go to the original owners discard pile, who would get to wound an oppopnents creature, me the original owner, or my opponent, the current controller?

Well, that is about it.

We love the game, and as we play more and more, the mechanics will certainly come easier.

Have a great week everyone!

Abe said:

Depands. Exhaust or Destroy you can use on any character, but sacrifice only on your own. What cards gave you the problem?

Abe said:

1 Combat icon, 2 Skill.

Abe said:

From the FAQ:

(v2.0) Responses on Cards Leaving Play

Some cards respond to leaving play, or to effects that may cause them to leave play. Such responses can be triggered as if the card were still in play. Note that only Response or Forced Response effects can be triggered in this manner, and they must respond to leaving play or the effect that causes them to leave play. Cards may not take "one last Action" before they leave play. For Example: The "Response:" effect on Randolph Carter can be triggered in response to a wound that destroys Randolph Carter.

So, yes, you do get a parting shot.

Abe said:

Even though it goes to the owners discard pile, control and other effects don't wear off until all responses have been resolved.

(v2.0) Card States

If a card has an ability that triggers in response to said card entering the discard pile, that effect does not resolve or trigger if that character had blank
text, was attached to a domain as a resource, was discarded from hand, or was insane before it entered the discard pile.

-and-

(v2.0) Basil Elton F13
If you are not the owner of Basil Elton, but you control him and trigger his ability, he is shuffled into his owner's deck. (Whenever a cardleaves play, it automatically defaults to its owner's out of play state.) The effect will still resolve.

Thanks Marius,

So questions 2 and 3 are resolved, and we were playing correctly!

Please forgive me, I am at work so I am posting what I think are the card titles from memory. Ill fix it this evening

for the first issue, the two examples of these effects are:

1) Demented Caretaker, which is I think a Syndicate or Shub card, "forced response: blah blah or destroy demented caretaker"

2)A Cthulhu card. I think it is young deep one? it is a picture of a, well, monster coming out of the water. "forced response: blah blah destroy another Cthulhu character."

For the fourth one, let me see if I get this.

1) My story phase: I commit 2 to one story.

2) Opponent plays event : takes one of my characters and commits it to the active story, since able.

3) Story is resolved. My character defeats my owned character that my opponent controls in the combat struggle. The card goes to my discard pile. Effect on the card reads that "when this card is sent to the discard pile, choose and wound (or destroy) another character."

The gray area is that the trigger to the response is ""when this card is sent to the discard pile." The rules state that discarded cards always go to the owners discard pile, not the controller. And the Faq states that the owner is in control of his discard pile. Your last post indicates that my opponent gets to wound and destroy one of my characters?

Thanks again!

-- Syndicate --
Demented Caretaker
------------------
Type : Character
Cost : 1
Skill : 1
Icons : C
Subtype : Criminal.
Game Text: Forced Response: After Demented Caretaker comes into play, choose and exhaust a character with skill 4 or higher or sacrifice Demented Caretaker.
Flavor text: "You want some of this?"
Illustrator: Tony Shasteen
Collector's Info: AAH F8

Yes, you can choose an opponents' character to exhaust. That's the point of the card: To assist panic, by exhausting a character immune to panic. You can exhaust a character of your own, ofcourse, but that wouldn't be very efficient, most of the time... Note that it's 'sacrifice' not 'destroy' though.

The other one you might be revering to is:

-- Cthulhu --
Ravager from the Deep
---------------------
Type : Character
Cost : 4
Skill : 2
Icons : CCA
Subtype : Deep One.
Game Text: Villainous. Toughness +1. Forced Response: after Ravager from the Deep is committed to a story, wound all other characters at that story.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Lars Simkins
Collector's Info: UT C61

..Which will wound all other characters, friendly or not.

-- Hastur --
Polar Mirage
------------
Type : Event
Cost : 1
Subtype : Polar.
Game Text: Play during your opponent's turn, after their characters have been committed to stories. Action: Choose an opponent's character that is not committed to a story. Take control of that character until the end of the phase, and commit it to a story of your choice, if able.
Flavor text:
Illustrator: Rom
Collector's Info: AMM F11

The last card might be this one. I think you'll get a response out of it, just before control referts.

Marius said:

So essentially, Demented Caretaker cannot come out until there is a skill 4 character in play to tap. That is what caused the confusion.

Marius said:

Nope, the other one is new, the Emerging Deep One.

Forced Response: After You Play Emerging Deep One from your hand, Choose and Destroy a Cthulhu character.

So from another read, does that mean there must be a Cthulhu character in play by any player to destroy in order to bring it in to play from your hand? or can you destroy a card not yet in play to meet the requirement?

Marius said:

It was the polar mirage. My opponent played it on my Serpent from Yoth.

That card states "Forced Response: After Serpent from Yoth enters your discard pile, each opponent must choose and sacrifice a character. The way I read this is as follows: As all cards are discarded to the owners discard pile, not the controller, it never went to my opponents discard pile, it went to mine even though he controlled it via the Polar Mirage. So we played that I got the benefit and he had to sacrifice the character.

What do you think?

Marius said:

This is quiote strange, as I always thought that you make action by action, once you, once your opponent; and your opponent cannot start his until your is finished.

Let me give an example:

Swaying Branches: Dark Young.
Toughness +1. Action: move a wound on Swaying Branches to a character with fewer C icons than Swaying Branches.

I usually killed it in such way: He entered the story and gained a Wound from combat struggle. Then after stories resolve - active player (myself) Action is first - so ShotgunBlast the guy. He dies, and he never has a chance to activate his ability.

From this what you say - could he have last shot that saves him?

Veross said:

Note that Swaying Branches has an Action: on it, while the cards in the example have a Response: or Forced Response: - This means the timing is different. A new Action: can only be taken once you have priority, and all responses have been played. In the case of Swaying Branches, you're playing it right. When it's your turn, you can shoot him before he can ever shoot back.

Abe said:

Ah, that one. Well, note that the forced response means that it triggers after Emerging Deep One comes into play. This means that it's likely that there is a Cthulhu character in play, since Emerging Deep One is a Cthulhu character.

This is kinda like Demented Caretaker; Usually it's a drawback on the character, unless you go against a Cthulhu deck. Since those are popular, it's a handy removal effect in the mirrormatch. Since it says "destroy" you can pick any character you want.

I haven't seen the final version though, since you beat me to it, so there could be differences in the wording I haven't seen yet. - AFAIK that's how it works though.

Marius said:

1. Am I correct to assume that the Ravager from the Deep only wounds characters that are already commited to the story when the Ravager commits to the story? I.e. it's generally a better idea to use it when you're not the active player?

2. Taking control of the opponent's characters is weird! I'm confused how Blind Submission is supposed to work. Reading the FAQ hasn't really helped.

2 a) I had been playing it to make a character commited to a story switch sides - is that possible? Or is the character now uncommited?

2 b) It seems it is not possible to use it on a villaneous character if I have a heroic character in play (or vice versa) - correct?

2 c) What happens to characters that have attributes that are changed by other characters 'you' have in play? E.g. Disciple of the Gate or Son of Yeb . Do you recalculate them based on the characters of the temporary controller?

There have been a few other things I've been confused about that the FAQ seems to have clarified (e.g. skill X counts as 0 when effects refer to printed skill values; Binding cannot remove printed icons gained by using Paul Lemond 's action).

One other thing I don't understand:

3. What does ' if able ' really mean? E.g. Byakhee Attack : What happens if an opponent only has one card on his hand? Does it mean that

a) I cannot even use the action

b) the opponent doesn't have to discard anything

c) the opponent discards only one card

How would any of this change if it didn't say ' if able '?

Edit: Bonus question:

4. Does attaching a Tcho-Tcho Talisman prevent Professor Hermann Mulder from going insane when 6 or more characters are in play?

jhaelen said:

Correct.

jhaelen said:

The character becomes uncommited.

jhaelen said:

Correct, the effect will fail.

jhaelen said:

Yes.

jhaelen said:

It's B. If it didn't have "if able" it would be C.

jhaelen said:

Yes, It's a nice combo, giving a lot of icons from turn 1 on...

Thanks for the quick reply!

It seems 'if able' means exactly the opposite of what I was suspecting - interesting!

jhaelen said:

I also get confused by FFG's use of the "if able" clause.

The_Big_Show said:

It's quite simple, really.

"If able" means: Do [all these effects] if able. If you're not able to [do all these effects] you don't do [all these effects] at all.

But since there is so much confusion about this wording, as it is counterintuitive it's been looked at for a next FAQ.

Marius said:

Its not that so much as I fail to see why there needs to be a "if able" clause. Lets take a hyperthetical card that says "target opponent discards two cards at random from their hand, if able". According to how FFG designs the game, that would mean that they needs to have two or more cards in hand for it to work, when really it should be they discard two cards if they have two or more, or one card if they just have one. I really don't see why FFG needs to add an "if able" clause.