... other than maybe because he's hard to get?

I'm a fairly new player and just discovered there was a Rhaegar Targaryen card printed in Battle of the Ruby Ford, but looking around the different deck builds on CardgameDB, i realised no one actually plays him. Not sure why, as he looks pretty decent for a 4 Gold, 5 STR TRICON character with TWO crests. And yes, he can end the round if he dies, so if you get the first go and do all your challenges only to let him die, then essentially your opponent doesn't get to go for a challenge. What's the big drawback?

Either I'm not reading his card right, or people are finding other stuff more useful to play.

Well, your opponent can activate him too. So they could do the same, or Valar then activate his ability to start a new round and pick a better plot. Though I agree that he's underused even with that taken into account. The King trait can be very useful too.

I use him occassionally, but yeah, I'd assumed that it was because your opponent could use it with Valar. THey get their big kill, but can avoid having to worry about the low-income, 0 zero claim round everyone else has to get a head start on them.

I think it's sad that Viserys is generally more useful than Rhaegar.

He might see more regular play now that BloodRider is available and Targ has a more reliable way to cancel his effect if an opponent triggers it.

Skowza said:

Two questions. First, in response to above, because the round is ended immediately is there time to play a response? Or can it be cancelled?

Second, suppose you have something like unburnt on him. Can you trigger the save response on unburnt before your opponent could trigger his response?

@Davidlian: It's a combination of reasons. First, as others have mentioned, the triggered effect often makes Rhaegar a liability. Disregarding his ability though, there's still some question about how useful he is. Even at 5 STR, he has no keywords, save ability, or protections. Deadly and stealth can push through a challenge just as well as 5 STR, and you can find other characters with stealth/deadly at lower gold costs. When 4 gold is at stake, the character really should give you a serious edge. Rhaegar just doesn't fill this role very well.

@Perpetual Noob: You should be able to cancel his effect. Once any trigger happens, there's always a chance to cancel (unless it says can't be canceled), and the effect doesn't resolve until after that step happens. (That's the layman's explanation, but you can find a more technical explanation on the rules forum.) I think you're getting this confused with "end of phase" effects, like when Rhaenys's Hill's effect wears off. In those cases, the effect has already resolved, creating an ongoing game state that can't be canceled. In other words, you can cancel Rhaenys's' Hill, but if you let the trigger resolve successfully, you won't be able to save against/cancel the "end of phase" return of the characters to dead pile. So yeah, in this case, should be able to cancel Rhaegar.

Also, Rhaegar's ability triggers *after* he is killed. For unburnt and other saves, you would be saving Rhaegar before he is actually killed, so his effect would never have an opportunity to trigger. (Again, there's a more technical explanation about how he never enters moribund, etc. but just think of it this way, if you "save" someone's life, they don't really "die" do they?)

Yeah, he's a classic 'Awesome Casual' card.

When you're not facing tournament level decks, bossing a challenge with an invincible Power'O'Blood backed Rhaegar, then flinging Die By The Sword at your opponent's defenders, before amping up with Power'O'Arms to swing a 7-strength 2-claim intrigue next turn feels pretty wicked.

Unfortunately, like so many fun cards, he just doesn't cut it when you find yourself staring down something that's intended to shark the tables at Stahleck. Either your five gold investment gets outrun by a super speedy rush deck, or invalidated by any number of cleverly played control effects. Worst case scenario, he lets your opponent Valar for free (i,e. switch to a new plot immediately).

Sad really, he's a card I'd like to play more often... but against opposition who take winning seriously, he's just too big a liability.

On a semi-related note- is there any use to Rhaegar's harp?

Mighty Jim said:

I really like that one in a Dragon Deck, works quite well with Daenerys QoD, though the character also gets the ally/refugee trait, so I wouldn't attach it to an expensive character.

Ahzrab said:

But this drawback is of course another great use for the harp. Just attach the harp to an opponents charachter and use your Varys, Oakheart, Dissension, Fallen Brother, horn of dragons etc... on the charachter. And there are plenty ways to get the harp back once it´s in the discard pile.

The Harp has a variety of uses, but you need to build them into your deck. Its a combo piece and can be recursed with LDC to make it effective.
RH + Dragon Bite on opponents character means it cannot participate in any challenges or it kills itself. Good for putting on Bara characters to discard them with Ally hate on PoB Rounds; adds a King or Queen trait so opponent cannot use "if X is the only King in play..." abilities. Pre-errata it comboed with Carrion Birds too; for me it has always seemed more effective when played on opponents characters, especially in melee.

Thanks for all the responses, and also the follow-up discussion on Rhaegar's Harp. After seeing his picture, I can't help but think that in Robert's rebellion, Rhaegar was actually a misunderstood "Good Guy" caught in the middle of the war.

Oh yeah, I think it's pretty easy to view Rhaegar as a highly sympathetic character. Hell, I think an argument could be made for The Mad King. Yes, obviously he is insanely cruel and terribly paranoid, but in his defense, there was actually a whole lot of plotting against him. I think it's clear Rickard Stark and his Baratheon and Arryn friends were up to something long before Aerys killed Rickard and Brandon, and there were forces that wanted Rhaegar to depose his father.

The Baratheons are the usurpers, and I think a lot of the blame on how bad everything has gotten in Westeros can be laid squarely at their feet.

I used to include Rhaegar in every Targaryen deck I made, but I started coming to a lot of the same conclusions as Twn2dn. Rhaegar, as LoneWanderer said, is an awesome casual card, but probably doesn't belong in most decks looking to be truly competitive.

Rhaegar's Harp has a lot of uses (obviously ) but the practical problem i have with it is keeping track of all the traits. It can get a bit unwieldy.

I disagree with the coventional wisdom. Four gold for a Five STr, tricon king is a good buy. You hold him unitl after Valar adn there is little drawback. Teh king trait alone can come in helpful, and since Aegon's Blade makes a lot of my decks - I use Rhaegar with the Blade as a finisher quite often.

I like him and run him more often than not. YMMV.

Stag Lord said:

~That´s probably the best proof that Rhaegar is not for competive play - Baratheon players like him. Enough said, i guess ...

Personally i find him sometimes helpful in my decks, but he´s not the charachter which always makes the cut - e.g. like Jorah.

Just to add a quick comment, I don't think he's terrible, and as Stag points out, he's awesome in combination with some effects. But I just don't see how Rhaegar helps you win. If Targ is able to build noble- or warcrest-centric decks at some point, he might be worth it. But in the example above, Rhaegar doesn't win the game...Aegon's Blade (giving renown, stealth and STR boost) does. If the argument is "he's great after the 3rd or 4th round," to me that's a pretty bad selling point, because it means that if I draw him in my first 16-22 cards, he's going to just sit in my hand. After that, chances are I'll see only another 5-15 cards in my deck before the game is over. So a card that only helps late game BUT doesn't actually help win without combo'ing with another card just isn't all that appealing.

Compare this with Core Set Drogo, which you pretty much always like having in hand. Why not just play an extra copy of Drogo, rather than Rhaegar? If you really need that intrigue trait, play an extra Craster...for 2 gold he's a bargain. I just don't see where Rhaegar fills a spot that can't be more efficiently filled by another character.

Again, all that could change depending on the trait/crest support that Targ receives in the future.

I don't read all the topic, but some french targ player use it in Targ decks... It's really cool with lot of reset. If you play Valar, it's a turn without claim 0 and only 2 gold...

diana olympos said:

~Well only a one- handed person could come to this conclusion.

On the ONE HAND it´s a turn with the valar effect, but without the drawbacks of Valar (low income/no claim) if you play it intentionally on the OTHER HAND it´s a 4 gold investment which is forfeited to Valar intentionally and which might also be used against you if your opponnent plays Valar.

.... so it´s a Jaime card.