OK, i'm seeking a little help as i've scoured to book for this without success...

What is the range for melee/close combat engagements / attacks?

Does anyone have a page ref where this is stated?

That's a good question. I've allways played combat with a tactical map and asumed people to be engaged with each other when they occupy adjacent squares. I've also allowed creatures with a bigger size modifier to attack from an extra square away. It's worked out well for me.

Jackal_Strain said:

I don't use tactical maps, preferring a narrative approach, but the question came up elsewhere and i thought i'd plumb the depths of wisdom here...

Well tactical maps are 1m/square, so to be adjacent and able to engage in melee would be within 1m. Perhaps up to 2m depending on the weapon used.

Within striking distance seems reasonable... But that would vary immensely with different creatures, types of weapons, etc.

Jackal_Strain said:

Exactly.

So what is melee/close combat range?

The only vague ref i can find is p199 under Combat Circumstances: Point Blank

Rolls to hit a target within 3 meters with a ranged weapon are Easy (+30). Note that this bonus does not apply when shooting at targets that are in close combat with the character.

I think this therefore implies that melee range is 3 meters or less? But nowhere is that stated.

Which means using the grid map at the scale suggested in Dark Heresy (see sidebar p194 'The Tactical Map), with 1 square = 1 meter, the a melee attack can be made at a target 1, 2, or 3 squares away.

But as you say, what about a spear? Or a dagger? Or unarmed? Or an axe weilded by an ogryn? Or a Lictor attack?

??? ???

I would say an average sized character must be within 1m to attack with anything up to size of a sword. Spears and other weapons with long handles could attack from 1 or 2 m away.

Letrii said:

I think those ranges are a little short.

A person's arm is about 1mtr long. The average sword is 1-1.5mtrs. So 3mtrs seems about the right engagement for melee.

Unarmed of course would be 0-2mtrs?

Not sure really. And the rules don't specify it...

Aha!

p192 Move (Half or Full Action)

Whenever you end your move adjeacent to an adversary , you are said to have engaged with that opoonent.

Presumably, 'engaged' means 'entered close combat with'?

What does 'adjacent' mean? Touching? Within 1 meter? 2 meters? 3?

I stick to narrative as well. The way I play it is if one combatant can slash or stab the other then they are in melee range. This gives a slight advantage to larger weapons like chain swords because it's easier to keep your pistol packing adversary in chopping range. If you are ducking a buzzing chain blade then you are no longer in "point blank" and are now in close combat/melee range.

Similarly if you are just outside of arms reach or your opponent isn't using his fists to batter you then firing a shot is point blank. The real question is whether my target is or is not swinging a heavy object in my general direction.

You cannot just add length of weapon and or your arm for a combat range. If you do, you would only be scratching your foe with the very tip of your weapon. You need to hit with the middle of the weapon and so the range is only about 1-1.5 m. Remember, 1m is about 10 ft, if you had a sword big enough to hit that far away, it would be almost impossible to wield for unaugmented humans.

Letrii said:

1 meter = 3 feet (approx.), not 10 ft.

Personally i think 3 meters seems an appropriate 'engagement' range between two melee armed combatants. Even boxers engage each other at 0-2 meters range and they are unarmed, with a strike range no further than a thrown fist...

But i'm really looking for references from the Dark Heresy publications that might inform what this range would be, rather than a debate about what it might be.

As i said, i simply used a narrative approach on this as i never use grid-maps...

1 m=100 cm

1 ft=30 cm

10 ft=1 m

maybe you're confusing them with yards, they're close but not equal size.

Letrii said:

1 meter is approximately 3 feet and is the closest measurement in metric to 1 yard...

Letrii said:

Nope. 1m is actually about 3.3 feet (and thus 1m is 1.1 yards). 10ft is approximately 3 metres.

Oops, meant 3m in my earlier post.

Letrii said:

Phew, had my right eyebrow uncontrollably raised higher than my left there for a bit.

Luddite said:

I don't believe there are any hard measurements, and I've never seen such a rule in any RPG I've ever read. This is one of those things that depends entirely on the weapons being used and the reach of the weilder.

Hehe, I have successfully transfered 1d10 IP to you.

I really did think I read 2 meters somewhere but I must have made it up.

In future I'll say 1 meter for unarmed combatants, 2 meters or more for armed (with lung distances).

Incidentally the electro whip (name?) in IHB gives a range of 3 meters even though it is melee weapon so that suggests it's longer than what they would normally consider melee range.

Face Eater said:

I think the electro whip makes it clear that "melee range" depends on the weapons used. If your opponent can easily strike you with a melee weapon, you are now in melee range.

Mark It Zero said:

Interesting.

So there ISN'T a defined melee range in the core rules?

The concensus here therefore seems to be that 'melee range depends on the weapon being used'? So as a GM i have to make that up for each weapon? What might that be?

They implied it as being 1m without actually stating it.

Luddite said:

So there ISN'T a defined melee range in the core rules?

The concensus here therefore seems to be that 'melee range depends on the weapon being used'? So as a GM i have to make that up for each weapon? What might that be?

as with most of items within this area of the game. it is not specifically defined by the rules, as this particular game is more set upon the abstract nature of the universe. this is how you should handle it in game.

player1: "how close do I have to be to be in melee?"

GM: "close enough to hit him."

Player2: "he has an electro flail, does that mean I'll suffer modifiers to shoot the enemy if my compatriat starts whipping him?"

GM: "maybe...maybe not...you'll have to shoot him to find out."

you always have to remember its not about crunching numbers, sometimes its not hard to hit the bad guy sometimes it is. out of game letting your players know that due to the abstract nature of the game it may or may not gain or lose bonuses based on specific items not covered in the rules. sure that primitive pistol is unreliable but when you pistolwhip someone with it it'll shoot just fine after...that las pistol on the other hand...the character's don't know what the players know.

Luddite said:

How are you going to reliably keep track of each meter without needlessly sucking up game time, when it's much easier to say, "If your opponent can stab you with his weapon of choice, you are officially in melee range." The same would apply if a player put himself in stabbing distance of an enemy. Once they can be struck in melee all easy ranged shots are out the window.

So let's say we establish a meter as the default range for melee. Does that mean a guy with a whip is unable to stress a ranged opponent unless they are no more than a meter apart? So a guy with a dagger will cause the same melee threat range as a guy weilding a spear? The reason a set amount is vague is likely because in some circumstances it makes little sense.