If i was to jump horseback archers in to defend a deadly challenge for someone in a melee, and that player had a character in the combat as well, who chooses who to kill to deadly? The defender, I assume?

Fieras said:

Deadly
During a challenge, if the attacking player controls
the most participating characters with the
“Deadly” keyword, the defending player must
choose and kill a defending participating character
after the challenge resolves.

So in your example, not only does the defending player get to make the choice, he's probably going to choose the defending character he does not control.

In addition, it seems that wording would prevent deadly in a participating character (not directly controlled by the attacker or defender) from being relevant at all.

-Istaril said:

The rules only say "if the attacking player controls the most participating characters with the Deadly keyword." What this tells you is that you count up the Deadly characters by controller, not by side. So think of this: Attacker has 1 Deadly character, defender has 0, Player 3 jumped in a Deadly attacker. Defender does not have to kill a character for Deadly because the attacking player does not control the most characters with Deadly.

what about walder frey? He has deadly, but when he joins the battle, he doesnt become controlled by the attacking player does he?

Deadly.
After at least 1 defender is declared during a challenge, kneel Walder Frey to have him participate on the side that is currently winning the challenge.

So based on the fact that the attacking player may not control him, doesn't that mean that his deadly doesnt do anything?

That depends on what you mean by "does something." He still has deadly and he is still participating so he stills counts towards one player's Deadly count. He's no different from other jumpy characters which behave the way that ktom just described. The one thing that is funky about Walder Frey is that if his controller attacks and the defending player defends with more strength, Walder Frey will jump into the challenge as a defender but his Deadly will still count towards the attacking player's count (since the attacking player controls him). If the attacker has more Deadly characters, the defending player will probably end up choosing Walder Frey himself to kill for Deadly.

schrecklich said:

I think you misunderstood.

Player A controls Frey. Player B attacks player C. Doesn't that mean his deadly does NOT count for player B's attack because player B doesn't control Frey.

Fieras said:

ktom said:

Again:ktom said:

Sorry if I am being retarded, but your answer is unclear to me.

In my A,B,C scenario, if walder is the only deadly in the challenge, the defender does NOT have to claim for deadly. Right?

Fieras said:

If Walder is the only Deadly character in the challenge and the attacking player does not control him, does the attacking player control the most Deadly characters in the challenge? No, right? So the defender doesn't have to kill anyone.

I can't help but feel that whoever designed Walder Frey forgot how Deadly works, because from a Ned-perspective, he would make a lot more sense if Deadly wasn't about who controls the card, but about which side of the challenge he is participating (just like Walder Frey in the books, suddenly siding with one side and killing off characters). In a joust you might be able to do something with him if you're playing a lot of "win/lose challenge by X" effects, but in a melee game he's pretty useless.

I agree. this does make walder a slightly more useful card to play now. It obviously affects the controller more positively than any of the other players.

I have another scenario, in which I think makes walder a really good card to have.

I attack someone with 1 strength power challenge. They block for 2. Walder jumps in on their side. Combat resolves, they have to settle deadly on their character because of deadly.

Can this really be the case? If so, walder seems REALLY good. He effectively adds deadly anytime you attack when he's standing and the other player defends.

That works, but keep in mind that the defending player chooses a defending character to be killed for Deadly. The defending character does not have to be controlled by the defending player. The defending player could just choose Walder, and then Walder hasn't really impacted the board other than to kill himself.

schrecklich said:

Thats true. Didn't think about it that way. So walder effectively kills himself. That seems so odd.

Fieras said: