Gitzman said:

If we consider that we've already been given all of the marks of chaos at this point evil races could make sense. It still would have to be human because of the current careers. If it would be (I hope not) skaven they would need much more fleshing out. So Norscans maybe?

Anyway my money is on another race of dwarfs or humans.

As many of you I think that Halfings will be one of the races (I will put veto on them in my campaing anyway )

The second race I doubt it can be Bretonian, they are just the same race humans.

To me the ogres can be a possibility, specially because there was an attempt on them in the second edition that finally ended up as fan material. The problem is that with the current rules you cannot rise a characteristic above 6, which does not fit an Ogre character, who at least should be possible to rise strength to 7. So if they release the ogre as a race, they will have to add a rule for this race so they can rise strength above 6.

About an evil race...mmm who knows! In the second edition when they released Children of the Horned Rat you could play as a skaven, but of course all the party must play as skavens. In that sense I have the same feeling here, if they release an evil race it is for all the players to play with it. It just doesn't fit in the Warhammer universe a group composed by a Witch hunter, a Priest of Sigmar, a Wizard and a (for example) a dark elf or an orc, or a vampire and so on and so on.

May be Sea-Elves count as an own race?

My guess i halflings and a a new kind of dwarfs. That would make sense.

I am personally looking forward to yodeling South Germans in leather trousers.

Let's not get ourselves in a tizzy about an evil race, if they were going to do that, I'd be more inclined to think they'd release a supplement for evil characters. Yay? Nay?

Possibly some of the more "out there" suggestions? Some bizarre breed of of domesticated Goblin? Strigany?

I vote for Halflings and Dark Elves.

Crazy Aido said:

Now Strigany I could buy! It is not a provincial "race" (though it might be included as one) and it has been around in all editions. Good point!

Still it seems funny, that these two races come in a Epic box. The most epic thing in halflings is how annoying they are.

hi

it fair to say that the first of the two announced races will be Halflings. But what the other race will be is a puzzle. It depends how FFG define a race. it could be as simple as a karak something Dwarf. [note: that azgaraz dwarf was more specific in the rulebook than high-elf or wood-elf, see page 24-26], but on the other hand it could be any of the following list (in order which I think is most likely):

1) Norsemen
2) Ogres & gnomes (both where available as Player characters back in the 1st edition, and beside ogres are on the move again)
3) Gospodars & ungols (where given a fair description in 2nd edition, and beside would open for playing Ice-mages)
4) karak something dwarfs (I don't have the Black Fire pass, maybe there are hints there about other dwarf races?)
5) Strigany (mentioned in some 3rd edition products, maybe they have expanded on that?)
6) Sea elves (not really a race at all, but it refers to the elven enclave of Marienburg that for centuries have lived there)
7) tilean or estalian humans Estalian and the norse had their own career in the 2e rulebook.

But if I had to guess it would be Ogres . a tall race and a small race combined into a perfect sourcebox. I really look forward to this product.

cheers

Rikard
So long facebook and thanks for all the fish.
- a statement from a friend of me when google+ was released.

Nisses said:

troll slayers are so far out of whack compared to other careers - if you want to compare capacity to whallop someone.

how many careers are there now? there is no way they can be balanced. that's not a complaint, for me it's liberating to not have to worry about it. especially considering i make my players randomly choose their careers and races.

perhaps the ogre would be an advanced race. i.e. not one designed to be used at rank 1. this could fit with the higher rank careers of the heroes call supplement. or simply the ogre has far less creation points to spend on skills, actions and talents.

as for the other observation about fitting into a tavern ... well that's role play and rich material for fun. no different to a rat catcher entering a nobleman's manor, or an elf entering a karak.

I agree full bore with New Zombie. Ogres it is!

I find it odd that all content do date for WFRP3 hasnt event mentioned the existance of ogres, much less have them be part of society.

Now, to be honest i think race 2 is Ogres. BUT, it just seems a little silly to just throw them in at this point in the development cycle. Why are we adding new races when they have not even covered teh ones that are already released? =)

My money is solidly on Halflings and Ogres. Even if ogres cant fit in a tavern door and need to sleep in the stables.

Gitz

New Zombie said:

After some reading-up on the subject (at ogrestronghold.com), I came across this gem from Andrew Law:

OGRES AND HALFLINGS
Nobody knows why, but Ogres and Halflings seem to
gravitate towards each other. Perhaps it's their shared love
of good food, perhaps it's something else, but whatever the
reason, the two races just get on. The Moot has a sizeable
population of Ogres, and most village elders have one or
two Ogre bodyguards. In return, the Ogre Kingdoms has a
large population of Halflings, but most of these are slaves,
who either cook a good meal, or are the good meal

So I guess I'll have to throw my lot in with the ogre-lovers. Even though during said reading, I came across a big list of arguments why you wouldn't want to play an Ogre in wufrup. Most notably the size-factor, their very limited intellect, and the fact that a typical warhammer-scenario will involve a good deal of intrigue/investigation/social encounters. Ogres seem to me to be such a niche-filling race that any other choice would offer broader options.

Man I go to China for a couple weeks and I come back and now everyone has delusions of grandeur :-)

This is straight awesome. Gifting us with Halflings + 1 (I concur with the Ogre vibe thus far) is just icing on the grim n peril cake.

I will be curious to see how they shoe-horn that much setting content into their typical 48page pamphlet without seeming like a wikipedia article (ie Nordland is full of big hairy buggers, the Mootland is sunny and full of fat furry footed f---ers...and also Ogres). Granted they will have two booklets but the second will be episode ideas and then (hopefully optimistic for something better)...an orc slaying adventure

Could it be Dark Elves?

hmmm.....

New races?

Most likely High Elves. They are epic - at least in 1st and 2nd. Halflings.. would like it. Ogers, would love it, but they are not epic. Me totally dislikes high elves... pffff. Old, grumpy dwarf

Malte said:

The high elves are already a playable race, so I don't think they will re-release them in the hero's call. The high elves might get a box of their own in the future though.

I guessing Halflings, Bretonians or Ogres. Ogres and Halflings would fit the Empire focus, as they are both present there, Bretonians might not be a new race since they are humans but on the other hand "reiklander" is treated like a race so why not.

are high elves in the core set? I skipped the whole elven part.

BTW: there is a pretty cool "small but vicious" podcast episode talking about why high elves are epic. episode 45 or 46.. at the end.

Halflings and...

Zombies!

Reanimation rules to keep your dead characters in play! Eat brainz and dodge witch hunters!

....... Half-Elves maybe?

Definitely Gnomes!

(Note: The following is my Opinion only, and is not founded on any knowledge of upcoming products)

I seriously doubt that evil races will make an appearance in an official WFRP product. The world and setting (we're talking roleplay here, not the miniatures game) is designed to revolve around humans and the Empire. The various non-humans (elves, dwarves, and halflings), are really "second-class" citizens in the Empire. As evidenced by even the earlier WFRP books, lore, history, and information about these "acceptable" non-humans has less material than humans (Empire especially), and supplements with greater detail appear later in the production cycle.

If you look at how FFG has produced materials so far, they are gradually expanding from the core of the Empire (Reikland), outward, and with a pretty consistent progression. Therefore, I do not forsee any possibility of an 'evil PC' supplement until all potential for good PCs is exhausted ... ie after an Elf supplement (like BFP), and various sourcebooks/supplements dealing with the other human nations (Brettonia, Tilea, Kislev, etc), and so on.

Now, this does not preclude the potential for curses or conditions inflicted on good PCs. So, there might be a possibility for Lyncanthropy or Vampirism to appear before that.

We do know that FFG has promised halflings will be included in the game, so that is probably a good bet for one of the two races, as I cannot see FFG giving rules for any race before they do halflings. Now, if we think like FFG and their progression, are there any other races left that are tolerated within the Empire?

The list of Warhammer official "Intelligent Races" (as I recall):

Humans

High Elves

Wood Elves

Dwarfs

Halflings

Lizardmen

Beastmen

Ogres

Dark Elves

Greenskins

Undead

Skaven

Chaos (although the majority of Chaos are actually Humans, or Humans with mutations, and not really a separate race)

We already have Humans, both elves, and the dwarfs. What other "intelligent" races are tolerated in the Empire. Halflings for sure. Ogres also have a place in the WFRP lore as accepted mercenaries within the Empire. As quoted earlier in the thread, they are also often found in the company of Halflings. None of the other races are even marginally accepted within the Empire (not even Lizardmen), and hunted on sight. With that in mind, my opinion would mean that it would have to be Ogres as the second race, purely as it is the *only* race left that can be roleplayed within the Empire without being a complete pariah, and would fit with the FFG "Empire-centric" method of supplements.

Would roleplaying an Ogre be difficult? Sure. Your PC will be stupid (unless you spend points to raise your Int... if you even can), and exceptionally large. It will be a choice the player along with the GM (and possibly the whole group) will probably need to discuss, as the Ogre PC will have special needs and restrictions when roleplaying. Most likely, I expect that Ogre-race PCs will be "GM allowed only"

I don't see Brettonians, Tileans, Kislevites, etc as different "races". They are humans. I can see future supplements introducing a couple alternate racial abilities for the various nations, but I don't think they would be termed a different race.

Just my opinion and thoughts, anyway.

Ogres do receive a mention in Omens of War working as mercenaries for the Empire--so I could see them as the second race.

Perhaps players should only be allowed to create an Ogre as a starting character if the rest of the group was at rank 2 or higher, This way Ogres could remain powerful, and they would not upset the balance of the group.

Just an idea...

dvang said:

This has already been promised in Heros Call - regional variations. Which adds more weight to the 'not Bretonian, Tilean, Kislevite as a race' arguement, IMO.

Do Half-Elves exist in WFRP? If so, that's a potential, surely?

Well its clear we all agree that the first race is Halflings... hopefully with some Moot information... as for the second race -

I just can't see Ogres being a realistic choice. They are mostly considered "bad" guys and FFG seems to be sticking to "safe" areas that are clearly in the GW IP... fleshing out Ogres as a playable race seems to fly in the face of what GW would want.

My vote is either:

1) a "foreign" human... meaning another country outside of the Empire but still close by... therefore my top guess would be Bretonnia the country that is close enough to the Empire to clearly tie into FFG's centering around Ubersreik. Case in point - look at how they handled the "Dwarves" release in Black Fire pass - they put a new Karak NEAR Ubersreik. Grey Mountain, younger dwarves? Why do that? Because they wanted to put it close to Ubersreik. OR...

2) If they did something with say, Elves it would be to further flesh out Wood Elves in Athel Loren... again, right there by Ubersreik.

As opposed to say High Elves, Lizards, or "real" Warhammer Ogres who are all too far away from the Ubersreik/Reikland/Empire centric nature of FFG's take on the game.

My two cents...