(3.38) Saving from "Then" Effects

Uncle Joker said:

Of course. It is a response, but it is obviously not a save response. So you will play it in step 5, where standard responses are played (just like before the FAQ update)

Are you saying the "parting blow" response in Step 5 is surely not "a response to THEN effect"?

Uncle Joker said:

Eh? A standard response can be played to anything that happened before in the same action window, nothing changed about that between before the FAQ update and after it. If a character leaves play because of a "then" effect, you play Parting Blow in step 5 of the action window, just as you would always have.

The FAQ is merely relevant to save responses, because a "then" effect only occurs if the whole effect is already resolving, which would technically not allow you to save a card from leaving play because of a "then" effect; this has now been addressed in the FAQ by granting you a special opportunity to play a save in response to a "then" effect. The sentence about non-save responses is only meant to prevent you from playing non-save responses during that special opportunity, because otherwise you would upset the usual order by playing a response before any passive effects would take place.

I think this is exceptionally badly worded. What I assume was meant was that *during this special Response opportunity*, no other Responses than Save Responses can be triggered, i.e. no cancels that respond specifically to the then part of the effect are allowes - which makes sense.

The way it is worded now, it certainly does sound as if no Responses that specifically respond to something that happens because of a Then effect are allowed. That would mean that, for example, Parting Blow could not be triggered after a character goes back to hand because of Cyvasse or Unburnt or Citadel of Oldtown or is killed by DotN Melisandre. Same for the Bannermen's response. Or Informed Acolytes couldn't trigger their response after someone draws cards via the likes of Threat from the East, Parting Blow, Drinking the Sea, Scury or Bay of Ice.

I can't for the life of me imagine that this would be intentional. It's one small line in a paragraph pertaining to a very specific situation, and it fundamentally changes some responses in a way that has nothing to do with the situation the paragraph it's in refers to. I'm sending this to FFG.

Saturnine said:

I agree that this must be what is *meant*. It is not really what it *says*, though, is it?

Ratatoskr said:

Yes and no. You could argue that if you play a standard response, you respond to the effect as whole, not just the "then" part. So if, for example, someone returns a character to your handing using "Game of Cyvasse," you play "Parting Blow" in response to the whole effect, not just the "then" part -- and you are allowed to do so because the whole effect included one of your characters leaving play. But yeah, I can see how it can easily be misconstrued and it should probably be better worded.

I don't know what you did, Khudzlin, but you broke the page

That big white

Grr... swallowed by the big white again... "during this special

Uncle Joker said:

We respond to the result of a card effect or game effect. The only thing that responds to the effects themselves are saves and cancels.

You guys may want to take a look at the FAQ again. The wording on this entry has been updated to make it clear that the "no non-save Responses" only applies to the special save opportunity, not to Step 5.