Braddoc said:

I'm pretty sure the rules change in BC isn't meant to be Chaos-specific. As in, your True Grit isn't better because you're a Heretic, it's better because the rules have changed.

Morangias said:

Yes, and they got changed because the base of this campaign setting is under the dimmed glow of Chaos, and not the Bright light of The Imperium. Same system, but 4 games, which sure, can be merged, but at base value, they are stand alone, which just so happens to be abel to be merged into a giant game universe.

Braddoc said:

Or, they got changed because someone thought the previous rules just weren't up to par. Or do you think it's the greater freedom of Chaos that allows BC characters to make multiple attacks as a Half Action?

I've got to agree with Morangias here - a large part of the 40k RPGs is evolution, FFG learning where they want to go with the system they inherited from Black Industries. Black Crusade threw a lot of dead weight overboard there.

Cifer said:

Which is why the game includes a conversion guide for using the Black Crusade rules in all the other current 40k RPG core books.

Morangias said:

Just had a fun mental image, Brother Rectaretentius of the Ultramarines insisting that according to the sacred Codex Astartes a swift attack must be executed as the only thing you do for 6 seconds, as well as that of a Comissar shooting a guardsman for daring to violate regulations by quickly aiming before firing off a semi-auto burst from his lasgun.

I think you're approaching True Grit from the wrong angle here... Sure, it might seem overpowered if u look at it like: "hey, CSM will be nearly indestructeble now". But if u look at the new "Fate Point" system, you'll find that an enemy of the corpse emperor can nullify his critical damage, where a loyalist marina can't. With that fact taken into account the True Grit needed to be upped so that the loyalist scum atleast make a descent challange for a world eater or a plauge marine...

Indeed, a CSM with True Grit will be increadably strong, but i think that is a part of their beeing. I don't think True Grit is overpowered, i think it needs to be that strong to stand a chanse against the might of chaos

AluminiumWolf said:

But then he dies of a nasty case of the sniffles. The type which causes you to cough your intestines out of your throat.

Hygric said:

When you put it like this, it does sound somewhat viable.

Kudos for the UM name - this guy sounds like a perfect candidate for the next Chapter Master!

borithan said:

To be fair there tend to be two types of Warhammer protagonists - those in one off short fiction, who have grimdark happen to them (and a large chance of being eaten by something at the end of the story), and heros of multi book epics, who inflict grimdark on other people.

Meh, even the proper warhammer big heroes have nasty ends; Valtan for example. Poisoned and then finished off in his sick bed by being brutally stabbed. Those novel characters who are Great Big Bloody Heroes aren't real Warhammer characters. Just like Gaunt's Ghosts isn't really 40k.

There are generous helpings of fancy smancy heroes in 40kland that are never defeated and always remain firmly within awesomeland in 40k. Once you've joined the ranks of the fancy named heroes, it doesn't take just one freak accident to undo you -- unlike in say D&D, where one wrong move can wind up with even level 30 characters getting TPKed and soulbound, the heroes do, in fact, have inarguable plot armor here. The Emperor only lost due to a massive combination of Xanatos gambits and his own blindness, while being able to rack up to 5 fate points ensures that the Imperium's finest will pretty much always get away scott free. Its only a grim and gritty setting for no-name NPCs. Or for those who dabble with the Warp.

One huge contrast in 40kland is the whole massive tech vs massive ignorance; but another is the way commoners are completely screwed and how protagonists have completely stupid ridiculous strings of luck piled onto how vastly more powerful they tend to be than the competition (in most cases). Personalities just count for way, way more than just about any other RPG setting I can think of.

Of course, where the Warp is concerned, this breaks down, appropriately. One successful possession, and even if your character is recovered... he's crippled forever. Perils of the Warp can irrevocably destroy any character. Then, chaotic chars likewise have faultier plot armor. Both types, psykers and chaos heretics, are indeed way more subject to the BAD END possibilities in 40k. Just one mutation-through-failing can completely ruin your image of your character. And corruption points can't be fate pointed away by loyalists (unless you have pure faith).

Just one mutation-through-failing can completely ruin your image of your character.

Luckily, they covered that with the "Reversing Gifts and Afflictions" box on page 292.

@borithan: Valten was Warhammer Fantasy and that was the Skaven doing what they do best, being sneaky and using warpstone based poisons. Valten was also recovering from being smacked around by Archaeon for a bit so he wasn't poisoned..just severely wounded.

Gaunts Ghosts are 40k, if you notice they dont fight Chaos Space Marines on a regular basis, the first time they did it they were shooting for joints and less armored neck joints on the power armor. The 2nd time depleted all their ammunation and they had to pretty much blow up the village just to slowly take them out. Its Guard vs Guard and some speciality work. Gaunts Ghosts are a scout-recon company. Not a stand in the mud and fight company. They get to fight all the fun things of chaos face to face without...tanks...heavy weapons that can't be carried....and other fun things the guard uses to back up its forces.

@Everyone else: Lasguns are flashlights. Plain and Simple. Flashlights. They dont strike fear into ANYTHING unless they are weilded en mass by a very large group of people. In solo terms, a lasgun or anything las is used to fight off pesky humans. In my DH game, my group upgraded as fast as possible to get rid of their las weaponry. They went to Hellgun, the only weapon under Las that works against big scary creatures.

On the Unnatural abilities. Space Marines are gene enhanced to be stronger and tougher. There is a reason why in DH/RT/and DW the Mark of Nurgle or making anything Nurgle you automatically increase toughness by +20 and increase their Unnatural Toughness by 1 or make it x3 whichever is better.

hmm, this new True Grit sounds like it fits in perfectly if your going with Nurgle or Khorne. Khorne does not care from whence the blood flows so making sure you dont feel your wounds is good. Nurgle has just always been very tough, when there are stories of the Death Guard just walking through firestorms of las weaponry or tank shells and still moving before collapsing. Yea..that is Nurgle being tough.

Oh, and you can take out a fully kitted out Space Marine using the DH version of a Lictor in one shot. Not rolling max damage.

I haven't seen anything go across the board really or get erratad to fit across the board in talents and the such. Some of the talents vary from game to game. Hell even how Psychic powers work varies from game to game. I haven't seen Dark Heresy errated to match RT or DW. If you play a straight DH game your still rolling vast amounts of dice and making the dm hate psykers. So, I dont believe the version of True Grit in BC is going to affect characters in the others. Especially since in DW you start with True Grit and in BC you still have to buy it.

I"m running a RT game right now with 1 Space Marine player. He gets 10% of the xp until the group is rank 5 in their system. Until then he has all his stuff but is going with a scout look unless he needs his power armor. What will they be fighting against primarily: Tau. Why Tau...because they talk to Rogue Traders. Their guns are going to hurt anyway but then again a starting Rogue Trader character is already very kitted out at starting. I'm not worried and neither is my group.

To everybody worrying about this True Grit, the player who bought it in somebodies game should be the one in front soaking up the horrendous damage and moving. yes it means they are going to be taking less critical, oh well unless Medicae changed a whole lot, they are still going to be hurting in the next fight unless they take a very long time to heal up.

Morangias said:

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! Feel free to nick it for your own games.