So, I'm flipping through the books I have, and I've come to learn one thing above all others; I have trouble figuring out the scale of this game. I can look at stuff in Dark Heresy, Inquisitor's Handbook, Creatures Anathema, Rogue Trader, and Lure of the Expanse, but then I get to Ascension. Every time I look at the character write-ups in these books, I say "how can I build these to work together?" Everything from a grunt to a Farseer is in "regular" format, but "standard" stormtroopers and Vindicare Assassins get tons of extra points to spend, when built as NPC's. I want to do an Autarch write-up. Is he Ascension-caliber? The Farsser in LotE isn't, apparently, but an Inquisitor's Crusader henchman is. I want to see them, and maybe some high-up Tau in battlesuits, and have no problem taking the time to write them up, but I don't know where they rate between acolytes and full throne agents. I don't have Death Watch yet, so I don't know how Space Marines differ it up further, but I assume they are all 8 rank lvls, too. I could just say "ignore Ascension", but if I ever ran this game, that's probably a place I'd go, and so knowing helps planning.

So, the point I'm trying to get to here is, with a game that has no levels, persay, and doesn't give equivalent point costs or comparable ranks achieved for its NPC write-ups, and has Elite Advances to give them anything they might want, what might be some pointers for gauging the awe factor of some characters? What must go Ascension-level, and what can stay basic? What needs to stay under 13,000 pts, and what can scrape the 45,000 mark?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, before I try to make a Tau Shas'O who gets pwned by a stormtrooper because he's actually worth more pts.

I'd advise you not to get caught up with the notion of points with npcs particulariy ones such as high level aliens like Autarchs and Tau Commanders in Battlesuits. Both would be suitable for Ascension... infact both would want to possibly wait for the party to be a bit into ascension unless they are very combat focused. If you're running a dark heresy game you'll learn to gauge it. It really depends on the party make up and gear as well as their focus. A group of Ordos Xenos agents might be able to mix it up with all manner of Xenos fiends but they likely wont have all the handy little tricks for dealing with a tougher daemon. Its awkward at the best of times to gauge unless you've had some time to take stock of the groups characters.

What does help is not just to throw in the big guys all by themselves as once a group gets to higher levels if you give them only one target you can hang lots of bells and whistles off the opponent but they can bring some serious forces to bear.

The Ascension book has a Dire Avenger Exarch listed in the Xenos Adversaries section so if you were trying to stat one up start there and use that as a basis.

A lot of Tau including Commanders in Battlesuits are stated in the Deathwatch corebook and supplement Mark of the Xenos.

The Eldar Farseer in Lure of the Expanse isn't to be sniffed at either from what I remember, he's hard enough to hit and durable in his own ways... The only way I remember us honestly making a dent was that the arch militant in the rogue trader group had a power fist and hexamagramically warded power armour... we got lucky due to his gear. If you don't think he could hold up to your particular group in some future game well that particular example of a Farseer could be the runt of the litter so to speak but he definitely is a good place to start.

If you're worried about singular, powerful units then you can always work with quantity of enemies you know your cell can handle and then extrapolate from that. If you do it in waves of disposable mooks (regular or elite) you can fudge the encounters on-the-fly to boost, decrease, or just remove them as you see fit that you've properly challenged the Acolytes.

A good commander knows when to pull back or keep contingencies for get-aways so the group doesn't have to fight him until you feel comfortable with how hard you can push a group. Just make sure to properly pave over the escape they couldn't do anything about so the players don't feel like you're railroading them (telling them why you're doing it would only spoil the immersion).

If you want something properly great, big encounter you can always counterweight an enemy that might be too powerful for the acolytes by having their inquisitor come into the picture to balance the scales (it's really his prerogative and insight in which missions he personally involves himself in).

As far as points are concerned, it's not about how many points overall the enemies/characters have, it's how many of those points are invested into combat potential if you're worried about stand-up-knock-down-blasting encounters. Not all careers are built equal for combat (I'm looking at you adept).

Thanks. Sorry, it was just feeling weird to me. The bulk of my 40k experience is table top with Eldar and Daemonhunters, and the bulk of my much more considerable RPG experience is d20 or White Wolf d10, and they each had a mechanic for gaugung the overall "level" of their characters. From the minis lore, it seemed weird that they were building Crusader bodyguards at a higher "level" (Ascension) than a Wraithguard or Lictor, or how any Aspect Warrior Exacrch (the "least" is in Ascension) would've been built with more points, potentially, than Serennon, a frakking Farseer (who might've been built using "regular" rules from Rogue Trader; I don't know if RT has an Ascension-style expansion to it).

I suppose if it doesn't have Heroic or Master WS/BS, and doesn't have Psy 7+, it "should" be okay for a party of similarly equipped characters who have been given some idea what they are expected to do. Also, and thi can be one of my personal failings, in regards to RPGing, not everything must revolve around combat, not even in the war torn 41st millennium. Again, thanks for the assistance. Of course, anyone else who wishes to weigh in, please feel frr. I continue to recheck my posts for some time.