What happens to a Rumor card when the heroes fail to meet the requirements?

By Khorlith, in Descent: Journeys in the Dark

My question is: If the heroes fail to meet the objectives for the active rumor, what happens to the card... does it get returned to the bottom of the rumor deck or does it go to the graveyard?

As the rules don't say either way, my gut instinct is that the failed rumor goes back to the rumor deck. That being said, the reason I wonder about the card going to the graveyard is just the logic of the card being played out.

If the heroes are going in to recover the body of Derafin the Mighty and end up fleeing the dungeon, that location is now closed to them so having that same rumor come up for another location feels odd.

Likewise, for the Twins rumor. If the overlord killed the twins before the heroes get them out of the level, it's bizarre that you can get the same rumor for another location.

Anyway, I realize that I'm probably over-analyzing the situation so I'd like a ruling on the fate of a rumor card when the heroes fail to meet the reward conditions.

Thanks.

Khorlith: The Rule Dictator

Khorlith said:

My question is: If the heroes fail to meet the objectives for the active rumor, what happens to the card... does it get returned to the bottom of the rumor deck or does it go to the graveyard?

As the rules don't say either way, my gut instinct is that the failed rumor goes back to the rumor deck. That being said, the reason I wonder about the card going to the graveyard is just the logic of the card being played out.

If the heroes are going in to recover the body of Derafin the Mighty and end up fleeing the dungeon, that location is now closed to them so having that same rumor come up for another location feels odd.

Likewise, for the Twins rumor. If the overlord killed the twins before the heroes get them out of the level, it's bizarre that you can get the same rumor for another location.

Anyway, I realize that I'm probably over-analyzing the situation so I'd like a ruling on the fate of a rumor card when the heroes fail to meet the reward conditions.

Thanks.

Khorlith: The Rule Dictator

Nothing.

That rumour is still the active rumour, still in that location.
If that location somehow becomes available again then the heroes can re-enter the dungeon and do the rumour again (I can't remember if that is possible in RtL, it is in SoB when a Lt drops a quest item) .
If not, the heroes must draw another rumor at the tavern (later, during a visit) and hence discard the 'old' rumour to the bottom of the rumour deck. If the heroes manage to make it all the way through the rumour deck and redraw the old rumour they originally 'failed' in, then they can place it in a new location. Obviously their previous information was incorrect (it was only a rumour after all) and clearly that is why they failed. gui%C3%B1o.gif
(Frankly, if they make it all the way through the deck and redraw, I'd blame their failure on being permanently sloshed).

99% of the time 'bizarre' just means you haven't thought of the reason yet.

I think that an explored location cannot be explored again by no means in rtl, so you could take another rumour and put the "old" one at the bottom of the deck. I discard entirely the rumour if they fail, however.

Corbon said:

If that location somehow becomes available again then the heroes can re-enter the dungeon and do the rumour again (I can't remember if that is possible in RtL, it is in SoB when a Lt drops a quest item) .99% of the time 'bizarre' just means you haven't thought of the reason yet.

It is possible in some particular cases in RtL. If the OL has chosen the plot of the sun stone, then certain quest items will appear in certain locations. If those locations have already been visited, they become reopen as soon as the item is there. So the following is possible:

1 The heroes fail to explore a rumor dungeon (the dungeon is now closed)

2 The OL plays a plot card that makes a quest item appear in that dungeon but he has no lieutenant there (rare but possible) (the dungeon is now open)

3 The heroes are near enough that dungeon to get there before the lieutentants (the OL was either pretty stupid to play the plot card like that or pretty confident that he could defend that dungeon again)

4 The heroes get to the end of the dungeon, accomplishe the rumor requirements and get out with the item before the lieutenants have arrived. (The OL gets very anoyed) (The dungeon is now closed again)

Corbon said:

Khorlith said:

My question is: If the heroes fail to meet the objectives for the active rumor, what happens to the card... does it get returned to the bottom of the rumor deck or does it go to the graveyard?

As the rules don't say either way, my gut instinct is that the failed rumor goes back to the rumor deck. That being said, the reason I wonder about the card going to the graveyard is just the logic of the card being played out.

If the heroes are going in to recover the body of Derafin the Mighty and end up fleeing the dungeon, that location is now closed to them so having that same rumor come up for another location feels odd.

Likewise, for the Twins rumor. If the overlord killed the twins before the heroes get them out of the level, it's bizarre that you can get the same rumor for another location.

Anyway, I realize that I'm probably over-analyzing the situation so I'd like a ruling on the fate of a rumor card when the heroes fail to meet the reward conditions.

Thanks.

Khorlith: The Rule Dictator

Nothing.

That rumour is still the active rumour, still in that location.
If that location somehow becomes available again then the heroes can re-enter the dungeon and do the rumour again (I can't remember if that is possible in RtL, it is in SoB when a Lt drops a quest item) .
If not, the heroes must draw another rumor at the tavern (later, during a visit) and hence discard the 'old' rumour to the bottom of the rumour deck. If the heroes manage to make it all the way through the rumour deck and redraw the old rumour they originally 'failed' in, then they can place it in a new location. Obviously their previous information was incorrect (it was only a rumour after all) and clearly that is why they failed. gui%C3%B1o.gif
(Frankly, if they make it all the way through the deck and redraw, I'd blame their failure on being permanently sloshed).

99% of the time 'bizarre' just means you haven't thought of the reason yet.





Either way, I see value in cost/benefit with your method as well as wider variety in rumors.

I wish the rules on reshuffling some of the decks was a little more clearly explained.

Digitality said:



I've seen several posts from you, both here and on BGG, suggesting that the rumor deck is never reshuffled. This isn't the vibe I got from my rulebook, where I read it to mean that the shuffling of the rumor deck is part of the process of buying a round of drinks. Both on page 18 and on page 22.

I do see the paragraph that puts the discarded rumor to the bottom of the deck, and this really doesn't matter and would be redundant as a step if the deck is simply reshuffled later. Is this the basis for your position?

Either way, I see value in cost/benefit with your method as well as wider variety in rumors.

I wish the rules on reshuffling some of the decks was a little more clearly explained.

No, I just missed it. I don't recall anyone ever noting that for me, thank you.

Corbon said:

No, I just missed it. I don't recall anyone ever noting that for me, thank you.



lengua.gif

In the end, I went with returning the card to the rumor deck if the heroes failed to meet the objectives.

Thanks for everyone's input.