"After any player loses a challenge by 4 or more total STR, he or she names either 'character' or 'location,' then chooses and discards from play (cannot be saved) 1 card of the named type he or she controls, if able."

Are you allowed to choose a card type that you control none of? For instance, you have 2 characters and 0 locations in play, and your opponent's Theon text triggers. Can you choose location?

I assume yes, but I have been told otherwise...

Yes. You can choose "location" or "character," even if you have 0 of the named card type in play (and subsequently discard nothing). There is nothing in the effect text limiting your choice in the part before the "then" based on what will happen after the "then," or requiring the part after the "then" to result in a card leaving play "if able." You are not required to make a bad choice before the "then" just so that the part after the "then" has something to do.

Take a common, and popular, situation that is similar. I attack with a high-STR Deadly military guy. You defend with your lowly, 1 STR military guy and kill him for claim, leaving no legal target for Deadly. If Theon required you to choose "character" or "location" in such a way that something had to leave play, wouldn't similar logic say you must choose some other character for claim so that Deadly could kill the defending character when it got around to resolving? Obviously not true, right?

Doesn't the "if able" thing change anything on that ?

Kordovan said:

*blinks*

Wait, so. Deadly is resolved AFTER claim in military challenges.

*thumps head against desk*

Parker said:

One of those things I took for granted was being done correctly. Kill the deadly target, then claim.

*Shame curtains*

Parker said:

When you have a framework action window that has multiple framework events (the two most common are revealing plots/determining initiative in the plot phase and resolving a challenge in the challenge phase), you must complete all of those events before passives or Responses to any of the individual events are dealt with. For example, in order to resolve a challenge, you must do all 4 of the following:

1. Determine winner (by counting/comparing STR)
2. Resolve claim effect
3. Award "unopposed" (if applicable)
4. Award "Renown" (if applicable)

The normal temptation is to do passives (like Deadly) or Responses (like "A Lannister Pays His Debts") to winning/losing the challenge between #1 and #2, but the rules say you cannot do passives or Responses to any of them until you have completely resolved #1 - #4.

(And the Deadly timing was actually put into the "common questions" part at the end of the FAQ.)

Thanks as always ktom.

So in other words if you do not play with comlete noobs this ability is useless?

Phantazm said:

It works for your opponents as well. So when you enter Theon into game its both you and your opponent have either to rise defensive forces or take greater losses.

That is correct Phantazm. The way I see having Theon in play for yourself is he really is not much a risk because once you lose by 4 or more STR, you can just choose to discard him from play with his ability and then it's over and done with.

If you happen to have used his ability against opponents at least one time, it may have been a good trade off.