Hello community.

I'd like to ask if it is possible to play "They shall not cross" while using "Narrow Sea" myself :

I marshal narrow sea, and I proceed to discard it in order to reduce the cost of one character etc. At that time, can I play "They shall not cross" myself and save narrow Sea from my own action, in order to put "they shall not cross" (the permanent +2 str boon) to one of my characters?

If yes, AFTER doing that, can I go on and use narrow sea again during the same marshaling phase, or should I wait for the next marshaling phase? (i.e: I "try" to discard narrow sea in order to reduce cost, play "they shall...", and put it on a character. Right after that, I "try again" to discard narrow sea in order to reduce the cost of a character and this time it proceeds normally. Am I right? Or do I get the chance to re-use narrow sea only in my next marshaling phase?)

And since I'm here: A question about "Starfall": Does it "work" (the "place 1 gold token" part) for *every* Dayne character during a successful challenge, or is it only for *one* of the participating characters during each challenge?

Thank you in advance

Discarding Narrow Sea is the cost for its effect and thus part of the initiation, which grants you no opportunity for a save/cancel response.

Starfall's response can only be triggered once per challenge, for one participating House Dayne character.

Saturnine said:

Why is this true, out of curiosity?

imrahil327 said:

"Response: After you win a challenge in which a House Dayne character participated, place 1 gold token from the treasury on that character."

First, when you trigger that, how many gold tokens does it place and where? Just 1 gold token on one character (singular), right? So if you win a challenge in which 3 House Dayne characters participated, in order to place a gold token on each character (singular), you'd have to trigger the Response 3 separate times - once for each character, right?

Well, what are you actually Responding to here? The character participating in the challenge? No. You are Responding to winning the challenge (hence: "after you win a challenge..."). So how many times did you win the actual challenge? Just once, right? So there is only one Response opportunity for "after you win a challenge," and since a Response can only be triggered one time for each Response opportunity, you are only going to get to trigger this one time - not the 3 times you'd need to place 1 gold token on each of your 3 characters.

In order to put 1 gold on each participating Dayne character, it would need to say something like "Response: After a House Dayne character participates on the winning side of a challenge...".

Just to quote the relevant section of the FAQ:

"If a response or passive ability is triggered, the effect can only occur once per trigger. For example, if Sansa Stark (CORE S9) is in play and you play an attachment on her, Sansa Stark's effect (draw a card) can only be triggered once. (If a second attachment is played on Sansa Stark, her ability can be triggered again.)

Got to say that the wording is pretty ambiguous, all of my playgroup interpreted it as putting a gold token on every house dayne character as the response, ie the one response covers all characters involved in the challenge with the house dayne trait.

Very little in the wording indicates that it will only give one token to one character, and even with ktoms explanation, which im sure is correct as its ktom, im struggling to see it.

Presumably the bit of the text that defines that only 1 character gets the gold token is on 'that' character.

Underworld40k said:

"A character" though, could easily be interpreted as "any character" . If I have 4 characters in the challenge, each one is "a character participating", if you get my meaning.

In order for it to be clear, it should be "one House Dayne character" .

tldpaladin said:

What you point out here is the reason you get to choose which of several House Dayne characters gets the gold token. It is not an argument for all of them getting a token from a single triggering of the Response.

It is a debate regarding use of language, after all

let me put it in another way: "a man that gets sick must get treatment". This obviously does not mean that "only one man..."

It would obviously be more proper to say "any man that gets sick...". That's what I'm saying.

"Response: After the health care bill is passed, a man that gets sick must get treatment."

ktom broke it down for you language wise. The mistake isn't in the cards language but your (and honestly my initial) assumptions regarding what you want it to do.

The rules are clear. We can trigger an ability once for each opportunity.

How many times was the health care bill passed in the Senate?

Once. (lets just say once for ease of the analogy)

So a man (that is obviously one since A and Man are both singular) that got sick (not a man who did not) must get treatment (singular treatment, not multiple treatments). Now say there were multiple men who got sick. We could only trigger this response every time the health care bill is passed. We cannot trigger it five times for a single passing. So it was passed once in the Senate and once in the House, so in the end it was passed a total of two times, each of those times I get to choose a man who got sick to get treatment.

What you are looking for is something more like these two -

"When the health care bill passes each man that gets sick must get treatment."

"Response: After the health care bill is passed, all men who get sick must get treatment."

There is no escaping that A and Man are singular, and there is no changing the number of times you can trigger the response in the rules.