One of my players utilizes a buckler. Understanding the basic concept of a buckler, I've been letting him shoot his bow while having the buckler equipped on his wrist. He has been benefiting from the defense value of the buckler as well as being able to use the "block" action card, all while having his bow equipped.

Have I been too lenient or is this player just savy?

a buckler is gripped in the hand typically which would make it difficult to fire a bow.

New Zombie said:

I was thinking about this same thing recently - but I find reference to a few other systems that allow it, or allow it with restrictions (e.g. pathfinder I believe).

I guess I was hoping someone had a rules reference that said explicitly that all shields take up one hand, and that two handed weapons can't explicitly be used when weilding the buckler. I'll have to reread the rules when I get home later.

the only rule reference you will find is around two handed weapons. a buckler is treated no different than a shield or a dagger for that matter. it is something that occupies a hand.

i would let common sense prevail and err on the side of what is fun for all.

if your player says the buckler is strapped to his forearm leaving his hand free to grip the bow then i would have some banes and chaos star results effect knock the buckler askew.

New Zombie said:

Thanks for this - I'm inclined to agree.

Use the normal defence value for buckler but add a penalty to attacks using that arm. Seems legit to me. Say one Misfortune die?

But from what I know and have seen bucklers are hand held, their primary function is defending the sword hand and the primary reason for their relatively small size is because they are easier to manouver than larger shields. (Google around for it a bit and you'll find lots about how bucklers were actually used). The strapped bucklers mainly seem to be a D&D phenomenon.

But if you want to allow a buckler strapped to the arm (this is fantasy after all), I'd probably go with this the misfortune approach; If you have a buckler strapped to your arm it will have a negative effect on shooting a bow/using any 2H weapon (like 1 or 2 misfortune dice).

I would assign a black die when he use with the buckler but allow him to counter with a WS specialization (He would need 2 if he whants the extra black die when defending)

I've done a bit of archery in my time and having a lump of wood on either arm would be pretty cumbersome to firing a bow (or even a cross bow). Also trying blocking anything with a buckler strapped to your arm, it makes no sense without a hand to grip it in place!

Even if the player argues its strapped to their arm, you should still impose some form of additional difficulty to all ranged attacks (maybe a black dice or two).

The rules say bows and cross bows are two handed weapons, I have not looked up bucklers, but I doubt they are no hand weapons.

The argument your player is making is comparable to someone waying "I'd like to use my 2 handed great axe and and then block with the towershield strapped to my back". Its a little bit cheesey.

I'd say refuse the buckler, give him large ranged penalties (and only allow him to parry), or make him use a maneuver to swap weapons when he goes into combat (but don't let him block while using a bow!).

EDIT: Most systems i've seen using bucklers give them less stats for defence but the bonus of being able to parry with them (rather than using a sword). I don't think Bucklers should be used to block anyway.. they are tiny!

I agree that some kind of disadvantage is in order - but the problem is how to take away something that has already been inherently given.

When the character acquired a buckler, I didn't think about all these things, I kinda just went with it. Now he's been using the buckler for all it's good qualities and none of it's drawbacks - and I'll have to simply make changes. It's a painful thing to do I guess - but it must be done.

permanent injury. lose the hand.

You could enforce some form of encumberance. Think up a mechanic of a situation what will give him a distinct disadvantage to his attacks. Maybe force him to fire on the move and impose defence items as black dice to his firing checks (armour/shield). Maybe unsteady ground.. Tell him he's over balanced on one side due to the buckler and give him penalties. Break it in the first round of every fight, or give it a durability.. since bucklers are not designed to block! Then have it as a rare purchase in towns. Might force him to be sparing with his blocks.

Or the common GM one... "I'm the GM, you can't use your buckler like that", when he resists "Rocks all everyone dies".... You have that power man.

Or simply say you asked on the forums and the majority said he's being cheesy so stop being a munchkin .

New Zombie said:

I like your style.

Even though buckler's weren't used strapped to the arm, I'd go with the "say yes" suggestion that is given in the GM-guide (or wherever it is). If he want's to strap it onto his arm, let him. But tell him there will be drawbacks, such as misfortune dice when shooting, an extra manouver to strap it on (as it takes more time/effort strapping something to your own arm than to just grab it) and maybe other drawbacks when it's fitting, like misfortune dice while trying to pick a lock or pick someones pocket (as the buckler gets in the way).

But on the other hand his left hand is free for use (for example when shooting the bow), that he can block without having to drop the bow and equip the shield and that he can climb with the buckler still attached to his arm (where others would have to un-equip their shield while climbing a ladder/wall/tree and then re-equip it if a fight breaks out right after the climbing).

It's a fantasy game after all, so why not have a strap on buckler?

Bucklers strapped to the wrist are a D&Dism. And IIRC an example of D&D simply getting historical accuracy wrong. Bucklers are hand held and really need to be to be maneuverable enough to catch things with something the size of a dinner plate. Strapping them to the wrist makes them slower and much less effective.

Bucklers are parrying weapons, still don't think you should be able to use them to 'Block'.

mongol archers used to use shields and fire a bow at the same time. small round shields either the could hold both at the same time or the small round shield was part of the arm guard….or strapped on as you might call it

i use to shoot compound bows for a while but never felt the need to strap a shield to my arm so no real first hand experience. strapping 5 kgs to your arm would not have a huge impact and you would get used to it over time. if it weighs more you might start seeing issues over extended use but not in the first minute of shooting

though in mount and blade fire and sword you can use a shield and bow at the same time but it makes hitting targets running from left to right almost impossible

so say yes

takes one maneuvor(maybe more, one round is meant to be 10 seconds, multi manouvs still messes with my head) to remove/ 3 to strap on

adds misf. to shooting, off hand attack and anything requiring fine manipulation of both hands(eg lockpicking) make some thing to hard like playing a lute

and mabye a simple system to reflect the straps becoming loose due to hits and the small round shield spinning down around the arm

as for the buckler, off hand quaterstaff, parrying stick debate it is all a little messed up

but small shields attached to your wrist can catch arrows..stoping steel balls is another question