Pirates of Orkmont have printed str.X, so I am not sure if their printed str.changes every turn and how can I kill them with Qhorin Halfhand,who can kill non-unique character with printed STR 3 or less controlled by the losing opponent.

Their printed STR is 0 (same holds true for all characters with X STR). Forgive me, but I don't have the rules reference handy. Might have been in the FAQ.

My understanding is that they don't have a printed strength, so they cannot be chosen for an effect that checks for printed strength.

the1andonlime said:

It is on page 7.

schrecklich said:

FAQ 3.1 on page 7 states that X=0 unless specified by a preceding card, card effect, or granted player choice. That doesn't say anything about printed STR, though, just about current STR, so I'm not sure.

Nevermind, I searched for an older thread where this was discussed and I misremembered the conclusion.

Ah, found it. To save everyone the hassle of locating it, and ktom of having to type it all up again, it's here. See #20 for the comprehensive-as-usual explanation by ktom.

Ratatoskr said:

~ Which is a long way of saying that you just go by page 7 of the FAQ ; )

schrecklich said:

Well, page 7 of the FAQ talks about cost, not STR, so...

Ratatoskr said:

"So when we look at the only guidance we have for how to deal with the letter X (in the cost explanation, which the truly literal-minded folks will insist doesn't tell us anything about STR, but in the absence of any other guidelines, what else should we look at?), we are told to treat it as 0 unless specified by some other effect"

schrecklich said:

ktom said:

~Dude - "truly literal-minded"? Is that some kind of not-so-thinly veiled insult?

Ratatoskr said:

ktom said:

~ No. If I had said fundamentalist, THAT would have been the not-so-thinly veiled insult.

~ Well, in any case I'm fundamentalistically glad that the new FAQ entry validates my truly literally-minded interpretation, so I say nahnahnahNAHNAH to you, sir.

Unless, of course, I got the whole thing entirely wrong again.

Ratatoskr said:

~ Well, in any case I'm fundamentalistically glad that the new FAQ entry validates my truly literally-minded interpretation, so I say nahnahnahNAHNAH to you, sir.

Unless, of course, I got the whole thing entirely wrong again.

(4.19) Printed
Any reference made to "printed" be it cost, STR, icons, etc. only refers to the referenced item physically printed on the card itself. A card like Summer Reserves (Scattered Armies F119) does not have a printed cost or STR for instance. Any card effect that looked for the printed cost of a card without a printed cost would fail to find any cost and would return a null value, no item that could be referenced.

In terms of looking for "printed STR," this only really applies to other card types acting as characters. For Pirates of Orkmont, there is something "physically printed on the card itself." It's an X. This entry does not tell you anything about what to do with a variable characteristic that is "physically printed on the card itself;" it only tells you what to do if there is no ink on the card.

So treating any X as 0 in a comparison, based on the entry saying that printed cost X is treated as 0 in a comparison, is not touched at all by the new FAQ entry. Remember that the "fundamentalist" view here was that you can't extend an entry about variable printed cost to situations involving variable printed anything else.

Speaking about fundamentalist - if we have now null value introduced(?) to the game, does it change anything about Neutral faction + Men with no king thing?

ktom said:

Ratatoskr said:

~ Well, in any case I'm fundamentalistically glad that the new FAQ entry validates my truly literally-minded interpretation, so I say nahnahnahNAHNAH to you, sir.

Unless, of course, I got the whole thing entirely wrong again.

From the new FAQ:

(4.19) Printed
Any reference made to "printed" be it cost, STR, icons, etc. only refers to the referenced item physically printed on the card itself. A card like Summer Reserves (Scattered Armies F119) does not have a printed cost or STR for instance. Any card effect that looked for the printed cost of a card without a printed cost would fail to find any cost and would return a null value, no item that could be referenced.

In terms of looking for "printed STR," this only really applies to other card types acting as characters. For Pirates of Orkmont, there is something "physically printed on the card itself." It's an X. This entry does not tell you anything about what to do with a variable characteristic that is "physically printed on the card itself;" it only tells you what to do if there is no ink on the card.

So treating any X as 0 in a comparison, based on the entry saying that printed cost X is treated as 0 in a comparison, is not touched at all by the new FAQ entry. Remember that the "fundamentalist" view here was that you can't extend an entry about variable printed cost to situations involving variable printed anything else.

Actually, I asked Nate about this some time ago. He told me that Pirates of Orkmont cannot be killed by a Venomous Blade (assuming X=2 or less) because their printed STR is X, which cannot be compared to a numeric value. I can copy-paste the whole thing if you want.

Found it:

Printed cost can never be assumed to be anything other than what is printed, so the "printed STR" on the card is X. The assumed STR, if it is not defined, is 0, but"X" is still printed on the card, and Venomous Blade does not interact with assumed or modified STR, only what is printed. This means that Venomous Blade cannot be used to kill characters with "X" printed STR.

eloooooooi said:

Ah, so that's what I was thinking of earlier. I thought I read that somewhere, but I couldn't find a past thread with this info.

If that is the correct logic to follow, shouldn't Venomous Blade be incapable of killing Reinforcements characters as well?

eloooooooi said:

schrecklich said:

Rogue30 said: