While I like the revised edition, I miss the minimum range requirement.

However due to the current feel of the rules I don't think the old range values would work so thats my "new" proposal:

• Unarmed, Hand-to-Hand, Pistol: 0 Circle
• Automatic: at least 1 Circle
• Heavy: at least 2 Circles

If you don't have enough space between you and your target, you can still make an attack but with a 1-dice penalty for every missing Circle.

What do you think ?

Edit: Added Azanael proposal.

I also thought about something like that but I worry about making it harder for the Union, cause Matriachat makes almost just melee attacks while the Reich often need no LOS.

Of course you can use some more tactics to didn't get wounded in the right circle and it propably is a little more realistic, but just like I said I worry about making it more difficult for the Union

No, I think the minimum range was the worst part of the basic rules. It rendered the Union quite useless, I am happy that it is gone.

I think the reduced Minimum Range presented bei Plageman would be quite good - they aren´t too restrictive. Maybe with a "If you make an attack roll at MinRange -1 (e.g. 1 Space for a heavy weapon), you get -1 Die, for -2 Spaces you get -2 Dices. So Barry could fire at a adjacent space with -2 Dice and would get propably still 4+ Damage.

Katsuyori said:

As an Union player I totally understand your point of view, still I think that by completly removing them it creates an embarrassing situation, especially in regard to close combat attacks.

I think that Azanael proposal is quite good as it allows to act though at some cost.

Of course penalizing the weapons with the Automatic and/or Heavy traits penalize mostly the Union player but I think it brings back some strategy in the game especially for the Melee oriented characters as it makes them more efficient. It also make Pistol Weapons interesting as they areboth Ranged and allow to hit adjacent targets. Finally it makes the Smoke Bombs slightly better, giving somewhat of an edge to the Union.

I think introducing another complication, like minimum range, may slow the playgame time too much.

There's several equipement tokens yet and many of them have specific rules. Standard equipments are just: grenade, pistol, knife and aid kit, all others are particular.

In addiction If the number of rules rises will who game with me, if when I expalin the rules the other is tired before start to play?

I´ll try this next time I play. Let´s see what happens.

@Everybody trying this: would you please share your experience with this rule here? I am quite interested.

Oh my god, I've re-read my previous replay... I'm relly sorry to have raped english/american language

Personally i do not miss minimum ranges. But a general minimum range of 1 for everything that is not a hand to hand weapon might be worth a try.

Former minimum range value prevented you from attacking at all, with these updated version you can still decide to attack if you don't have the min range distance but with a small penalty (-1 dice per circle).

For example Barry equiped with the machine gun and the BA 27 battery pack would roll 6 dices if having at least 2 circles between him and his target, 5 dices if he only has one circle free and 4 dices if targeting an adjacent enemy.For standard Automatic Weapon this means rolling 5 dices if having at least one free circle and 4 dices at hand-to-hand range.

Plageman said:

We've been playing this as such for guns (for a while now):

Pistols: No min range

Automatic: 1 circle min.

Heavy: 1 circle min.

Automatic: CAN attack adjacent circle as a melee attack, using the gun as a blunt object (4 dice, no special abilities from weapon)

Heavy: CANNOT attack adjacent circle (the gun is too heavy to be used for that

This applies to regular attacks and counter attacks. it does not apply to overwatch (gun is already aimed & ready to fire)

Yes, it makes it harder for the Union - they now rely on strategic movement about as much as the Reich & Matriarchy do. Pistols with special abilities have more value. Hand-to-hand weapons have more impact against gun-slingers - it creates a 'engaged in melee' situation i like that's found in other games. Don't really see any negatives to it - it's not hard for us to remember and rolling 4 dice vs 5 and any modifiers certainly doesn't slow down the game.

I've found the 2-circle limitation a bit too much - if it's to add realism, 1 circle on the board is plenty of space as far as scale I think. I remember with old rules this really was detrimental to Barry - he was useless way too much.

Artemus Maximus said:

Thanks for sharing your impressions! But, for attacking adjacent circles with automatics: There is some equipment token for Union (some kind of bayonet) that has exactly the effect you described, effectively turning the automatic wpn into a melee weapon. I would take out your rule to not render this token overfluent.

Katsuyori said:

Right - if making only the M5 Special Bonus Token redundant doesn't sit well with you, i'd not give all automatics ability to do the same thing. But then again, with no minimum range, i cant think of a situation where you'd want to use the M5 Special instead of your automatic weapon anyway, to be honest - there are better bonus tokens to choose from

Mmm... 4 dice for a weapon used like a blunt instrument and 4 dice for a knife and for a pistol... I'm thinknig...

OK, I'm here:

I think an extemporaneous blunt instrument doens't hurt like a knife or a pistol: it doesn't make a hole nor a cutting, and it is (like I said before) "extemporaneous" that is different from a baseball bat or a hammer, that are created to hit something (or someone in our case), and they have some confortable handles and a specific side to hit.

The Artemus Maximus' idea is fine (even if I hope there will be no minmun range rule at all), but I think 3 dice are better than 4: just a little bit more than bare-hand attack, and a little bit less a knife or pistol. So the bayonet make a sense.

Carlos´ proposal is what I also had in mind. Maybe I will try that later.

ya i thought about 3 dice for this yesterday with the same reasoning - going to implement it tonight to test it out was trying to avoid another situation where the dice pool changes, but i think its manageable for experienced players.

awesome community for this game i must say