I tried to find this in the forums but didn't (maybe it's in the rules and I'm just can't read it)...

When you defeat the foes with both Strength and Craft (from the reaper expansion), can you exchange them for both or do you have to choose?

Personally I ruled that the player got to trade it in for whatever they defeated it with . A strength victory improves strength and craft improves craft.

Don't know what FFG's stance is on this, or what is written in rules aditions with Reaper. Sounds like another old card pulled from 2nd edition expansions.

The rule used to be that you only get to trophy it according to the attribute used to defeat it: Craft for Craft, Strength for Strength. Enemies aren't a resource for these attributes but only markers for the skills you've used and how much.

ilgoga said:

I'm pretty sure you must exchange them according to the type of combat you've won. If you consider that your skills increase with experience, you cannot become more skilled in Psychic Combat after a normal Combat; you increase your Strength when you win a Strength Combat, and the same for Craft, because you succesfully used that particular skill. This is the logic behind the rule of Trophies and Strength/Craft augmentation through Combat.

If you use the "rules to speed up play", you might exchange Enemies every 6 or 5 points. You may keep Cerberus or the Lord of the Pit to exchange them later and don't waste your well earned points, so you have to take note of the way you defeated them.

This makes sense. Thx guys...

Some days ago, i encounter the same problem when i have drawn lord of the Pit.

We did the same. I defeat it with strenght, so i have take a strength token for it.

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Anyway.. i have another question...

Does someone know the reason why there are more strenght enemies than craft enemies.

It sounds not fair towards characters who are working with craft, but i see that it is possible to win with craft based characters.

I wonder where that balance came from, or is it just luck, and that strenght based characters have more chance of winning....

There is a lack of Craft Enemies as there was no Craft exchange in 2nd Edition which 4th Edition is derived from. FFG added a few Craft Enemies to the mix in the revised edition, but I think we could possibly use a few more. Who knows what will come with subsequent expansions?

So the only reason is that talisman 4th edition is too short on craft enemies?. If that is the point, then i thank you for telling me.

I have another question. Do you think that if i add the enemie cards and other cards that bludgeon has made and the reaper cards from some days ago, will unbalance the game?

talismanisland said:

The Craft path (Mines, Vampire's Tower, Pits) is easier and there's the Gnome Follower to help you. A Character can reach the Crown with 7-8 Craft total points, while the Strength path is still a little harder.

Revised 4th edition + Reaper have added lots of Craft Enemies and game has a better balance now. Last game I was surprised to have 15 points of Craft at the end of the game, mostly gained thanks to psychic combat.

Maybe is that the reason why there is less craft enemies than strength enemies.

A wizard begins with 5 craft. If you can go to the crown of command with 8 craft then he is far quicker than a character who work with strength.

If that is the case, then is it good that the wizard don't encounter to much spirits...

So it is based on the endgame....

Easy or hard... it all depends on the turn of that card and to roll of that die! That's Talisman!

Another issue with Craft is that along with Craft Combat it allows Spell use. Strength has nothing extra it gains you. So limiting Craft elevation (aside from bunches of "wishes" and gimmes) seems sound in reasoning to some extent. That Reaper changes this (among a number of other things) seems insensible for balance.

Back in the 2nd ed. days, I seem to remember one or more characters that could elevate Craft by defeating Craft Enemies. But the ratio was something like 10 to veruss 7 to 1 for Strength. Was that the original Ghoul? Witchdocter? Hmm... what was it?

It was the Witch Doctor from Talisman: The Adventure.

talismanisland said:

Witch Doctor was an so-so draw for me back in the day (though the pic was very funny/cool). Then, one game, my WD died, character deck (I suppose 30+ cards counts as a deck) was reshuffled a few times and cut, I picked my personal dibs #13, Witch Doctor again, Son of Witch Doctor picks up where his father left off. Well, sadly, the son wasn't made up of any sterner stuff, and died. 3rd character, same method as above, Witch Doctor ! Grandson hits the scene. Oh well, this is a weak family as grandson died as well. Finally, 4th char, Witch Doctor again . Poor Ma Witch Doctor, lost so many of her family.

After that Witch Doctor became one my "want" draws. Of course, once you want to draw a particular char, you never/rarely do.

l had a problem with Craft Spirits the other day.

Turn 1 Spirit 7 craft, turn 2 Demon 10 Craft, turn 3 another Spirit 7 Craft then turn 4 the card that gathers Craft creatures in that space, now we had creatures worth 24 Craft in one space after only 4 turns. Needless to say no one went to that space.

Nice

We have draw the Gathering too.

On that place came a Lesser Demon with craft 7, and a Phantom with craft 4. It became a deadly space if you have low craft

I like the card. It cleans the board lol

While it seems a reasonable house rule to require a character to level up in Strength if defeating a Strength/Craft monster, the rules do not indicate that at all. On page 14, it says "When a character kills an enemy, he may take it as a trophy. A character may exchange trophies at the end of his turn to gain additional Strength and Craft counters."

Under the instructions for how to do this, it says he "gains one Strength counter for every seven points of Strength marked on the trophies he turns in ." The Craft language is identical.

So, turning in a Strength 5/ Craft 5 custom card, plus a Craft 2 Shade, and a Strength 9 Frost Dragon should yield 2 Strength and 1 Craft, due to the markings on the cards.

Alternately, you could read the "turning in" as a single incident falling only under Craft or Strength, and therefore that the combo monster can't be used for both, but in any case it can certainly be used for either. The combat that led to its destruction in no way affects its stance as a trophy "marked" with both traits.

Page 7 of the rules...

Enemy – Animal, Dragon, or Monster
These Enemies attack any character encountering them by
battling the character. Killed Enemies of this type may be kept
as trophies to be exchanged for Strength (see “Trophies” on
page 14). Enemies that defeat characters remain in the space.

Enemy – Spirit
These Enemies attack any character encountering them by
engaging that character in psychic combat. Killed Enemies of
this type may be kept as trophies to be exchanged for Craft
(see “Trophies” on page 14). Enemies that defeat characters
remain in the space.