So a friend created a character tonight loosely based on Deus Ex 3 (augmented by Chi rather than cybernetics). Anyway, i was randomly flipping through Dominus Exxet and game across the Hellgun(?) technique tree and, after reading him a few, he said oh yeah, that was what he wanted to play.

So, I'm cool with that, we've come up with a story for how his character even knows this secret technique, etc, etc. But my main question is this...where is the base gun stats that the gun creates? It's listed in the descriptive text as +10 speed, 100 damage. I can't find a gun with those stats. Is that an error, or am I looking in the wrong place?

i think it just pulls up guns with the same stats as flintlock pistols from the core book, except with the mentioned bonuses.

Tywyll said:

I have to agree with Brewmaster, It says +10 Quality and 100 damage. +10 quality matchlock pistols have +10 speed and 60 damage, because basic ones have +0 speed and 60 damage, the +10 does not effect damage. As per the 100 damage, the Ki bullets are +10 quality also, so that has a base damage of +20 (total of 80dmg), and the strength bonus must account for the other +20 damage (I know the rules are somewhere about aura extrusion and ranged weapon damage, but I don't know where they are).

The question I would wonder, (officially) is the reload speed still 4, or is it decreased due to the whole Ki instant-reload thing?

I personally house rules that every +5 quality bonus decreases the reload by 1, and Ki weapons decrease reload by 5. The two things do not stack (That way they can't make a ballista that reloads instantly, even with Ki).

Actually, the stats for the Gunhell pistols were fleshed out supposedly in a web-supplement. I don't have the link to said web supplement, but Elric was kind enough to give us the stats, since they summon their own weapons, not the matchlock pistols. Here's a link to the relevant thread, and check down around the 6th post.

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

Also, these specific weapons were discussed elsewhere, on the official forums. No stats, but other musings.

cipher-studios.com/AnimaBB/index.php

Interesting. Thought I should point this out though:

Gunslinger Pistol (+10Attack, +10Block, Dam100, Vel+10[what is this?] Str4, Thrust, Projectile, -2AT, Rel1, Ran200m, For30, Bre7, Pre130)

+10 Matchlock Pistol(+10Attack, +10Block, Dam 100, Str11, Thrust, Projectile, -2AT, Rel(4? or 1?) Ran50m, For28, Bre7, Pre120)

Other than that I don't know what Vel is, and the matchlock pistol has a 150m less range, more Reload without a rule on that, 2 less Fortitude, and 10 less Presence they are the same weapon (which when listed looks like a lot now that I see it, but it is mostly superficial, save the range). The matchlock has a lot more STR, but that just explains the damage.

Personally, I would use the +10 matchlock pistol, with Rel1, because 200m range seems...overpowered, as that the only other weapons with that range are the Heavy Ballista and Cannon.

Vel would be Velocity, otherwise known as Speed or Initiative Modifier.

The Reload trait of a Matchlock Pistol can be found on page 71 of the base book, and it's a 4. Meaning it can make a shot once every 4 rounds, before modifiers. The Gunhell Pistol, as described, has a Reload of 1, meaning 1 shot a round, before modifiers (The rules for reloading are found on page 89 of the base book). Which makes quite a bit of sense, considering it's a magical weapon made of spiritual energy that summons unlimited ammo for use.

Also, as the second thread discusses, the Reload trait is pretty irrelevant for these weapons, as they automatically reload at will (I'd use it as a limiter on how many shots a character may make with one in a round, but no reloading is actually perceived by the opponents), like Dante, from Devil May Cry. Incidentially, that's about how they appear as well (in my imagination). These are the weapons of the Kingdom of Solomon, nowhere near limited to Matchlock technology. If they appear as such, it is merely a cosmetic affectation, because that's what the wielder is used to and prefers.

Use whichever stats you prefer, but I see the arguments for the Gunhell Pistol stats much more than a spiritual Matchlock, for my games. I think this question was the exact reason why Carlos gave specific stats for the Gunhell Pistol in the web supplement.

YMMV.

Lia Valenth said:

I don't think the damage includes aura extrusion (which I agree, should add to damage) because its entirely possible to buy techniques without Aura extrusion.

That's my problem. A pistol does 60 and then +20 from the quality bonus leaves 20 unaccounted for (unless you just say these are superior weapons).

Tywyll said:

Actually I figured that one out. The Matchlock Pistol has 60 base damage, gains +20 damage from the +10 ammo, and gains +20 damage from the 11 STR. a normal Matchlock Pistol has STR 9 (+10), so even though it says "base damage 60", really is has a base damage of 70. (Note that Strength 9 is the first thing it states in the Special catagory) It does not automatically add the STR bonus to the base damage, just like any other weapon. If you look up the Matchlock Pistol it gains 1 strength for every +5 bonus, and +10 Matchlock Pistols therefore have STR 11 (+20), Base (60)+ Ammo (+20)+ STR 11 (+20)=100. So no it does not gain a bonus from aura extrution because it already has a STR score.

This also increases the damage of the Crossbows, Arquebus, etc.

However, as that the only real difference between the +10 Matchlock Pistol and the Gunslinger Pistol is the range it doesn't really matter which you use, unless the PC's set up an ambush and have the Gunslinger work like a sniper.

As per Ki weapons automatically reloading, while that was my first idea as soon as I said that the Ki user was wondering how hard it would be to create a Ki technique to make a +10 Cannon he could use to attack twice a round (Level 4). I decided this was a bad idea, so made Ki just take 5 off the Reload.

Lia Valenth said:

Ok, I had to look that up but yeah, I see where you are coming from. Fair enough, I get the 100 damage now.

But I don't understand why Aura Extrusion does not add to it. There is nothing in Aura Extrusion that says anything in regards to strength so what difference does it make? It just says it increases the damage.

As for the reloading issue, I'm perfectly happy to have it be immediate...otherwise, where the hell do you keep your 'infinite ammo'? Also, as to the hand cannon, you just say 'no'. Simple as that.

It wasn't a hand cannon, it was a Mace-Cannon for the Leo Impossible Weapon. I allowed it, but decreased the reload by 5 instead of to 0, the idea being the Ki could only generate so much matter (gunpowder, iron, etc.) per turn. So at the end of 7 turns the Mace-Cannon is automatically reloaded, if battle lasts long enough for it to matter.

I was working on a school of Ki Techniques and I was wondering something that is related to this. If a Ki Technique has the disadvantage Maintained Technique and a player gets an improved version of that technique could he use the improved version.

For example in the Gunhell technique tree the Bounce Shot, and most other techniques, requires Maintained Technique (Gunslinger) if the character created Improved Gunslinger, a Level 2 ability the same as Gunslinger except producing +15 guns instead of +10 ones would he be able to use Bounce Shot with it?

In a related question: can said Improved Gunslinger technique have the Maintained Technique (Gunslinger) disadvantage to activate the ability, but keep using the ability without maintaining Gunslinger.

i'v made me quite a few ki technique trees and what i would do is this:

you have 'tech x' and 'tech x mkII'. for every technique that requires 'tech x' to be maintained also add 'or tech x mkII' to its requirements, i wouldn't change the MK cost since it doesn't really effect the technique in question, but thats up to you.

as for the second question; a freind of mine made an entire tech tree based on that concept, he calls it 'cascading powers' and it does just that, each technique only requires the previous to activate it, not to maintain it.

hope that helps.