Just to make sure Im understanding this correctly, there is no Action window that allows you to play Sneak Attack and then commit to a quest. Is that correct? So an ally brought in via Sneak Attack could not go questing.

Secondly, although I hate errata from years and years of playing card games, I really feel Sneak Attack needs to be changed so that it can not be used to bring in Gandalf.. something to the affect of being able to target non-Istari allies or something like that. Cost vs Benefit ratio makes Sneak Attack plus Gandalf too good, in my opinion. Lower threat by 5? That costs nearly 3 resources for the Spirit sphere. Draw 3 cards. That costs lore 3 resources. I understand its a two card combo, but on top of his ability he makes for a really good attacker/defender as well. What do you guys think?

Ryan

I play that you can Sneak Attack in an ally in the Quest phase and commit him. The rationale is that the Players Commit characters to quest bullet on page 30 is in green (players can take actions in between the steps). If I recall, someone said there is an example in the FAQ that supports this, but I'm not motivated enough to look in the FAQ right now.

I think the Gandalf - Sneak Attack combo is powerful, but I don't think it requires errata. There are several powerful combos and many will evolve over time - that's the nature of the game. If you feel it is too strong, simply house rule it with your group - especially easy if you play solo!

I also have always played it that you can commit a character played with Sneak Attack in the very first action window of the phase.

I don't find Sneak Attack/Gandalf to be currently overpowered. Remember that Gandalf only sticks around for the phase if brought into play this way. So, you have to make a pretty quick decision on whether you need him now or not. While he helps a lot, I've yet to see any quests where this combo breaks the game. Having said that, I'm keeping my eye on all these ways we have to bring Gandalf in repeatedly(aside from Sneak Attack, you have Stand and Fight and now Born Aloft) because eventually you could get a deck combo that could allow you to play Gandalf every turn, despite the fact that you still have to pay his full price most of the times. I wonder if this is one of the reasons why the designers have not come up with too many cards that are resource engines.

I agree that he can be brought in with Sneak Attack and then commit to questing.

Since the entire Quest Phase is marked green (as pointed out above) on the timing chart, I play it like this:

• Quest Phase begins
• Actions can be taken (Sneak Attack)
• Commit characters
• Actions can be taken
• Reveal encounter cards
• Actions can be taken
• etc.

The key I think is that it is an Action and not a Response. If it was a Response you would have to wait until something happened during the phase in order to respond. With Action events you can fire them off as long as you can pay for them and they have no other criteria required to play and therefore do not require something to happen first. Soon as the Quest Phase begins, Sneak Attack is ready to go if you got the dough.

I think you guys are right.

Titan said:

I don't think you can use Stand and Fight to get back Gandalf since he is remove from play and not put in the discard pile after the round.

So according to the rulebook pg 14:

Phase 3: Quest
"In the quest phase, the players attempt to make progress on the current stage of their quest. This phase is broken into three steps: 1) commit characters, 2) staging, and 3) quest resolution. Players have the opportunity to take actions and play event cards at the end of each step."

This rule states that at the end of the step in which you commit characters, actions and events may be played. It does specifically prohibit a player from playing an action or event before characters are committed.

The Unofficial FAQ, it states:

"51. When can cards be played during questing? The rulebook P.14 states that cards can be played at the end of each step, where the game flows at the back of the rule book states card canbe played generally during green steps

The games flows are accurate. Cards can be played at any point during a green step in the game flows. The statement on P.14 is referring specifically to red steps when actions can only be played at the end of the step"

This refers to the text on pg 30 concerning the flow:

• Red – Players cannot interrupt with actions.
Responses can be played if their conditions are met.

• Green – Any player can take actions generally, or
between the game steps stated in the rules.

I prefer to see it as I would any CCG where it must be broken down further - because of competitive tournament play - to: Start of Phase 3 -> Players may take actions and play events -> Commit characters -> Players may take actions and play events, etc.

I'll keep having having Galdalf doing Sneak Attacks straight to quest until the Official FAQ says different. Honestly, I don't think it would change the game either way.

Kevenliev said:

There is no removed from play pile as far as the quest deck is concerned. When a quest card is removed from play thus far it is sent to the discard pile.

If it said that Gandalf was "removed from play" (though, it would actually say "game" and not "play"), then he would be removed from the game and not put in the discard pile.

Gandalf actually reads "discarded from play," which means that he goes to the discard pile.

Marlow said:

Quest Phase begins
Actions can be taken (Sneak Attack)
Commit characters Action can be taken between also. ( Example:you have 2 heroes, commit first one, play sneak attack, Commit second one).
Actions can be taken
Reveal encounter cards
Actions can be taken
etc.

Glaurung said:

I agree with everything you said except this. I think the FAQ and rules are pretty clear that each player commits all their heroes all at once.

Yes true all at once. When you finish commit to the quest all your characters commit all at once. But before you must tap them to commit right???

you cannot tap all in one go you do it character by character and resolve they special abilities, use some actions and them when you tap them all they commit to the quest all at once.

In the case of 2 players same story. Read the last FAQ careful and you will get this.

This is incorrect. From the FAQ:

"A player commits all characters he wishes to commit to a quest at once. Responses to the characters committing (such as those on Aragorn and Theodred) can then be triggered in the order of that player’s choice. After a player has committed his characters (and triggered any responses to those characters committing), the next player has the opportunity to commit his characters to the quest."

There is no difference (or gap) between committing them to a quest and exhausting them, since exhausting is a cost for committing. So you do exhaust all your characters you'd like to commit "all in one go," and exhaust them at the exact same time. Exhausting to commit and actually committing are not separate events.

However, I do agree that there could be a window between player 1 committing and player 2 committing their respective characters, but I could easily see it going the other way. I'd personally play it that there was a window between players, but I wouldn't be surprised if further clarification said this window didn't exist.

radiskull said:

I agree. I think there could be a window of opportunity for Actions between players committing characters during a multi-player game. The fact that Theodred's ability wouldn't be able to place a resource token on a Hero that was committed by a player who came after the Theodred player seems to indicate that there is a timing gap between the two players as they commit characters.

• Player One commits characters for questing and then fires off any abilities in the order of their choosing (Theodred + Aragorn, etc.)
• Argument that Actions can be played somewhere in here.
• Player Two commits characters for questing...

Plus things start going down faster when playing with a group that is comfortable with the flow of the game so some events might be hitting the table due to eager hands and it might slow things down to start telling people they need to wait till the end of the step. This would probably only really become an issue if something really tipped the balance of the game if it was played between players committing characters. We're all pretty sure that Sneak Attack+Gandalf can already happen at the beginning of the Quest Phase anyway. So I personally wouldn't have a problem if someone I was playing with changed their mind and decided to bust him out between players committing characters instead of at the beginning of the phase. Go team!

I can't think off the top of my head of any currently released Events or Actions that would cause an issue if they were played between players committing characters rather than before or after everyone committed.

radiskull said:

there is some conflict between the rules in rule book and in FAQ. Anyway we already have so long discuss about this before also.

I still think you can do it between but better i will not argue. I will make some video with examples and upload this on youtube (long time i want to do this).

Then i drop link here. Anyway we must to know for sure how is work in the tournament case.