With all the worries expressed in different threads, that this game will be left to die a slow death, I was thinking about the community doing some lobby work for our loved game!

With all the scepticism in the roleplaying community I think it would be very helpful for the overall performance of the game to write reviews and such on many different sites. I was astonished to find only one review on the German Amazon-store for example.

Let's all get the word out, that this is the thing to play! Or the thing to build on in the future.

My roleplaying group is a group that is very slow in expanding it's roleplaying experience with supplements and such (especially since I, the gm, am mostly the investor...) and thus we witnessed the death of our currently played game system some times before. But I really hope WFRP3 does not die!

Oh, and also give the Reckless Dice Podcast a good review. This will also lead people to our game!

Please contribute your dice to this dice pool to get many successes, boons and comets!

I agree. Too many people still think WFRP as "just another Descent". Though with the open call for Freelance Writers my trust for the future is renewed.

RPGgeek is still in its beta stage but I still believe it to be as good for RPGs as it is for board games. So go HERE for WFRP3!

socratim said:

Another good way to attract new players is to GM one shot games at your local gaming store. I'm planning on GMing a game or two via FantasyGrounds II.

I agree. Although I'm not as concerned as some are about the state of our game. Its alive and well, just going through some growing pains and changes.

Thanks for supporting RDP and it is our goal to help spread the good word.

Our facebook page is another good site to promote and contribute to discussion about WHFRP3e. So please head on over and "like" us at www.facebook.com/pages/Reckless-Dice-Podcast/221753911174822

make sure to participate and contribute too, as a healthy community is the best thing for a game.

Also support and talk about Liber Fanatica, Gitzmans Gallery, The Daily Empire, Neil Fosters WHFRP3e Fantasy Grounds platform. I've written a review for Beasts of War and they posted it so that is one site tackled. And I also intend to run several game demos down at the Sentry Box in Calgary Alberta Canada, hoping to spark some interest there.

We should do this out of the love of our game. Show it love and it will grow.

¬ Lester

I'm in. Let's make plans on what to do. For example:

* Run WFRP at local game days/stores. How do you do this? Find game days and offer to run a 4 hour scenario or demo at your local store.
* Get the players in your groups to recruit others and get your players to GM it for YOU once in a while.
* Contribute regular WFRP3-entitled postings to major forums (RPG.net, Enworld, here, RPGGeek, pen and paper, warseer, dakka dakka), either through start up threads or just contributing a few words to each thread. Even if it's a 'me too' plus a little controversy (cough..troll) text. Every post helps.
* In a positive tone, set the record straight every time someone posts about it being a "boardgame" or not being as good as something else.
* Have an offering for WFRP at EVERY local convention. If you can't run even ONE scenario while attending a local convention or game day, then you're not really a fan (IMHO).
** In addition to having games at conventions, make a big deal about them on the forums. Guys like Schoon were regularly running stuff. Comment and get them to get us the files so we can run them at our conventions.
* Get NEW GMs to run stuff.
* Befriend people HERE and at other major forums such as RPG.net, pen & paper games, etc. and watch for their posts. When they post, make positive comments. There are people who have left the game because there wasn't enough stuff in the beginning. Invite them back.
* Make friendly, subtle 3e conversion posts in the Strike to Stun forum on people that still play 2e by saying stuff like, "I like your idea, specifically [insert here]. I'm stealing it for my 3e game."
* Comment on individual articles and fan material such as Liber Fanatica, Reckless-Dice, websites, and The Daily Empire. Start topics here and elsewhere. This "2 posts a day" phenomenon has to change on these forums! FFG isn't going to take much notice if people aren't talking about the game!
* Post short reviews on Amazon.com and RPGGeek.
* Lastly, it never hurts to do some short articles. As D.C. said, there's a call for WFRP writers right now (see news). If you don't do that, do what I've been doing for years: write short stuff and post it here or for Liber Fanatica.
* Work with other game-fans (Cthulhu, 40k, D&D, Savage Worlds, Shadowrun, Pathfinder, WoD) to hold game days and share players! Piggy backing stuff will work better than trying to start from scratch. Notice that Schoon actually converted WFRP3 to 40k roleplay..now here's another way to encourage interest.

* Recruit players!!!! Post to your local Meet-Up that your group is looking for players (even if it's full!). Post to Gamers Seeking Gamers. Leave a pull-tab ad at your local game store. It's wierd, but when I left an ad up at my local stores, they SUDDENLY started carrying WFRP3 stuff..and suddenly that stuff was being bought!

* LASTLY: DO NOT BE COMPLACENT. Do not assume that because WFRP will be back next year that suddenly a bunch of people will suddenly jump into the hobby. Our problem is not that WFRP won't be around. Our problem is we want MORE PLAYERS around us. Let's get the cream of the crop players instead of just the D&D-haters or 'whomever gets caught up in the wfrp3 net.'

Next: Lets start talking about conventions, what's running and see if we can start getting people to GM more 4 hour slots at conventions.



jh

Well shut my mouth.

I was going to go into one of my regular "it's too bloody expensive" rants, but I see I'm up against some hardcore players and to be honest, am somewhat humbled.

I will endeavour to get my "Tilian Job" scenario up and running for my local societies convention, then maybe see about having a session or three run at the games store in Dublin city centre.

As always Jay makes some great insights here. The more we discuss the game the better. Especially on these forums and other, less specialized RPG forums.

I personally think that the expense concern is a moot one, all rpg's are "expensive" this game costs no more than DnD 4th and you get all the components to run games as well. So in the long run WHFRP 3e is cheaper in my opinion. Especially now that they have the Guides / chitless option available (although it is a little behind the curve currently but thats why we are trying to ramp up the overall discussion and hype over this game isn't it).

I'm committed to put out Setting videos, talk to local gamers and run local demos. I'm also committed to making the Reckless Dice Podcast a great outlet for newcomers and old guard alike. We are committed now we need your help. Please contribute you thoughts and questions to RDP through the usual channels, and hopefully our faceboook page will become a great resource and community outlet in the coming months.

im not concerned but then i just got into the game so my wallet needs a rally step. in comparison to other fantasy flight products with components the amount of product released is impressive. i do think people need to adjust their expectations of release schedule to be more in line with how often the board games get expanded rather than the average tabletop rpg gets splat books, source guides and modules though.

as for promoting the game i think FFG could do a lot to help the fans promote the game by providing more demo adventures, improving the dice roller app, creating a sanctioned play format and giving some stickies in the forums to the fan sites and podcasts that draw attention to the game.

Is the game not doing well???

Some people think it might get shelved, because the Living Index and Component List did not get updated in the last half year or so and the production cycle seems to have slowed down and there is no announcement past Lure of Power. But someone also stated that there was a change in the Lead Development and FFG is hiring Writers for WFRP3, so this is the other side.

But either way I think the game can only win from a little lobby-work, especially with all the prejudices in the RP-community. In germany for example they start the production cycle with the guides, because they think Germany is not a good market for component-heavy systems.

My personal observation is, that this game does not have the widespread love it should have. So I am trying to share some love by writing reviews and such...

Doin my part!

Started 2 games with "3.5 D&D" players and they are loving it.

Will GM "Day late shilling short" 2 times in the "D Day Rpg" here in Brazil.

Lets post here new achievements on doing this!

I just posted a positive review on amazon.de for the core game ^^ Its not much, but hey, little steps here and there, right?

I really like the game system. Our group is a mixture of absolute roleplay beginners and old veterans - and we all like it very much. Played all adventures and are down to Crimson Rain and Blackfirepass. And we are not the only ones. There was a lot of excitment in our local game shops, when the dwarfen supplement finally arrived ^^ Several play groups were waiting on it.

I sure hope that the constant flow of adventures don't end, cause that is one of the main things I like about the system. There is always new material or a new adventure waiting in the future.

I think I'll ask the store I run D&D Encounters for if they would let me run "A Day Late, A Shilling Short" on an off D&D day. They currently carry a ton of FF's stuff, but not WFRP.

If anyone is in the Ann Arbor, MI area let me know, I'd be glad to bring you in.

I just returned from PacifiCon, a 3 day gaming convention in the San Francisco Bay Area. Reckless Dice had a presence there and we ran several WFRP3 games, made some good impressions and were generally well receieved. We even had a new player try out GMing a game and had a blast!

I still get the impression people are unfamiliar with the game, no real bad impressions, just lack of knowledge. Everyone who stopped by our table were very keen to know what we were playing and sat to watch for a bit. The dice were always a big draw.

Gitzman

Gitz, I'd like to hear the details:

Which scenarios ran?

Were there any components left out for the convention (e.g. career sheets, did you use a basic action summary instead of cards, did you skip fatigue/stress or stance? etc.)?

How long to "teach" the major components of the game?

Did you use copies or card sleeves and/or how did you keep track of your components so you didn't lose them to the masses?

My first convention run was for False Pretenses. I had a table of SEVEN players and wasn't very adept at teaching the game yet. It took about 45 minutes to teach it back then. Now it takes about 10 minutes. Here's my high-speed method:

FIRST, GM PREP THE PRE-GEN CHARACTERS: Use a pre-gen character from Liber Fanatica #7. Update the sheet with Strange Eons to include/disinclude the following information: 1) remove clothes from armor section, 2) remove unarmed from weapon section, 3) remove any references to encumbrance in weapons, armor or equipment, 4) Add TOTAL DAMAGE behind each weapon, 5) Add TOTAL SOAK behind main armor, 6) Fill in the actual information for Career Abilities so you don't have to have the card out, 7) have a printed copy of the basic action summary for each player instead of the cards, 8) use fortune point cards with the rules on them, 9) use 'favored by fate' card for humans, 10) remove the prices listed after any equipment, 11) in the description section, add some personality to the character. 12) Every player should have a Dice symbol explanation sheet.

SECOND, TEACH THE BASICS QUICKLY AT THE GAME AND BUILD FROM THERE:
1. Look at your character and realize that it's all pretty familiar stuff! Review stuff common to all games: characteristics, skills, weapons and armor. Notice how each skill is associated with a characteristic. For example: athletics uses strength and charm uses fellowship. Weapon skill is strength and ballistic skill (ranged weapons) uses agility.

2. Tell them that the system is great, but like anything it takes a couple rolls before you get it down.

3. Review the dice and what they're for by having them mark their sheets! FIRST, Take a pen and write BLUE DICE over the characteristics.

4. Take a pen and write ADD YELLOW DIE over any checked boxes for skills. That means you are trained.

5. Take a pen and write ADD WHITE DIE next to skill specializations. These are particular circumstances where you get a benefit.

6. Now let's roll a skill check: Everybody make an Athletics (strength) check for your character to lift a heavy log in the middle of the road. First, grab one purple die. This is how hard it is to lift. Next, grab blue dice equal to your strength and a yellow if you're trained in that skill (marked with an x). Alright, roll them!

Cancelling:
* The only thing I want you to do right now is note that Hammers are good and Swords are bad and cancel them (set them aside). Here's how we cancel. Now look at your stack and cancel the hammers with swords. If you have at least one hammer leftover, then you succeeded. How did you do? NOW ROLL AGAIN.

* Now let's attack a goblin with your melee weapon: Make a weapon skill check and don't forget there's always ONE PURPLE. Go ahead and roll. Cancel your good hammers with swords and set them aside. Check each player. DID YOU HIT? It's that simple.

7. How much damage did you do on a hit? Look at your main melee weapon (axe or whatever): Look at your TOTAL DAMAGE. That's how much damage you do if you hit. Ask each player to tell you the total damage of his main weapon.

8. How much is your damage reduced if you get hit by your toughness and armor? Look at your armor's TOTAL SOAK. If I did 10 points of damage to you, how much did you ACTUALLY take in WOUNDS? Go around each player.

9. WOUNDS. Lastly, review that you only suffer wounds that aren't soaked and that you always get 1 wound if hit. If I tell you that you get a critical wound, flip it over and read it out loud.

10. What can you do in a round? Have a maneuvers list and indicate that they can do one thing. They can do more, but it will fatigue them. Indicate that in combat, you're either ENGAGED in combat, or out of it. Note that it's up to the player to be descriptive.

11. Tell the players THAT's 90% of the game. You're ready to play at the most basic level. You have other cards and abilities that modify this stuff, but that's pretty much it.

THIRD, TEACH THE ADVANCED STUFF
1. How to cancel banes/boons, what comets and stars are for and how to report them to the GM.

2. Stance. Write EXCHANGE WITH BLUE over the top of your stance meter on your sheet. These are better dice, but they have consequences in the roleplaying arena. When you've got green, you're likely to take longer. Reckless red gives you a chance to fatigue or stress your abilities.

3. Fatigue and Stress: Write BLACK WHEN OVER ABILITY on the character sheet. When they're over double an ability, you go unconscous. You can also gain a temporary insanity if you get too stressed.

4. How to spend a Fortune Point. These add a white die to a check.

5. How to socket in a talent for a benefit.

6. How to use an advanced action card (review EXTRA dice in the upper left)

7. Recharge. Make it clear to the players that some systems use daily, at will, or per encounter powers. WFRP3 abilities recharge faster than that and you track them using the number in the corner. HOUSE RULE RECOMMENDED: Just say exhaust talents are once per encounter at conventions.

8. Party sheet (I note it exists but don't use it at conventions)

9. How a critical is inflicted during an attack.

STUFF TO DISCUSS ONLY IF IT COMES UP

* Insanity, disease, mutation, corruption,

* Keep an eye on the players and let them enjoy the game instead of trying to memorize mechanics.

jh

Emirikol said:

That's great information Jay. I will be running 6 x 3 hour sessions at a convention in Australia in 4 weeks time and I've been thinking (and re thinking) what I'm going to do with components and the quick-start rules review. Great help - thanks.

I want to use a lot of the rules - stance, fatigue, stress, party sheets, fortune,etc. I'll definitely skip corruption and mutation. I'll bring in insanity only if the players really push it and will have disease make an appearance as that is involved heavily in my adventure design.

Now I need to think about how many components I'll let then use - I'd like to show them all off (I love them) but I'm concerned about some going missing...

Hopefully it will all go well and I can help get the WFRP3 word out! :-)

At PacifiCon I ran two sessions, one small one and one larger one. Each session had at least one other player who was familiar with the rules on some level, and the other players were new to the game.

Smaller Game (Zombies from Gathering Storm)

My smaller adventure was a snippet from the 2nd part of Gathering Storm where the zombies attack the town and the Inn, because who doesnt like zombies right?! Anyway that was a really good introduction and a setting which was very universally understood. We substituted Stromdorf for a smaller backwater town and let the PCs sleep away the night until things got out of hand and they woke up to an adventurous night.

In the game we used all the components except the party sheet. I gave teh players some action cards and a premade character. I showed them how to play while we played and it worked out well, by the 2nd or 3rd roll they were doing it on their own. However i would note that being able to roleplay and interact with a group goes a lot farther than learning the rules. The good roleplayesr in the group who were totally unfamiliar with the rules were by far and away the most effective and enjoyable participants.

Larger Game (Winds of Magic)

The 2nd game we ran was the "Winds of Change" from the magick supplement. A new GM ran this as her first adventure which i participated in. We had a blast. In this instance we did not use the party sheet, location cards, or GM trackign cards. She kept to the book, and the action cards provided in the book for the NPCs. It flowed well enough and all had a good time.

So i guess my take away was that i had a strong preference for a smooth game that never had a chance to say "hold on let me look that up". We decided to trim it down to the basics, Dice, Action Cards, and Roleplaying. It worked out very well and moved along quickly.

Gitzman

Did you still use talents? I was thinking maybe the non-exhaust talents would be better if they were just "built-in" to the character rather than worrying about the artificial feeling of "socketing". This could be a design imrpovement to have these next to the relevant skill or ability.

Not to slim down the game too much, but I agree, the people that did the best at most tables didn't give a crap about the rules, and the people for whom it didn't stick were saying stuff like "using one-up cards feels like magic the gathering." All game systems do that, but why does WFRP get accused of it moreso? Hence, I'd like to keep discussing the convention experience technically, because we can probably come up with a good, basic game set up for convention GM's that will get the most people interested.

jh

For what it's worth, i didnt head anything bad about the game while we were playing in either session. Everyone who played or watched was quite intrigued. I have yet to experience the "Magic" or "WoW" comments regarding actions, though i'm prepped to tackle them when they do come lol =)

Gitzman

P.S. no, i didnt use talents, though i do like your idea of bulding them into the PC.

Emirikol said:

I agree - I'm torn between using the "extra really cool stuff" but concerned that it will be too much for new players. For my game, I'll use the party sheet as party stress is integral to the scenario (the players are a bunch of misfits who don't know each other and they've been thrown into a stressful situation), plus I like rewarding the group for good team play with party fortune.

But I'm thinking about what not to have. Don't use:

• Insanity: Although they can be cool to throw into the game, I won't use them, I'll just keep the usual penalties for being fatigued, stressed and strained.
• Disease: Would love to use these as the scenario is set in the sewers under Nuln - lots of chance for disease. But, too much complication. And, if I'm not socketing non-exhaustible talents (which I think is a good idea) then part of the disease mechanic won't be there.
• Corruption. Again, can be cool; but too much for new players.
• Mutation. Would be nice to have - I was thinking of having one PC start with a mutation. But, extra complication so will leave out.
• Severe injuries.
• Skill specialisations? Players might find it harder to grasp (although they shouldn't - but it's one extra "thing") and/or forget about them. Remove them and have less information to sift through on the character sheet and one less mechanic.

Any others people think we can live without? Or, comments on removing the above?

Cheers,

M.

Trenloe said:

I think the game and the rules have to be extra simple for a convention. You have to imagine that most of the players on the convention play several games and I think the attention span will drop with advancing hours and games. I really like your summary, emirikol.

But I also know that there are some players who shy away from a too easy, simple game. So, emphasize the strengths of the game (for me thats the fast dice mechanism and the handy action cards that allow you to keep your mind on the roleplaying aspect), the difference to other roleplaying games, but keep reminding that's just the tip of the iceberg and one can integrate additional rules like mutation and corruption, a nemesis and so on.

Your rule explanation probably depends heavy on the group of players you have. If they have roleplay game experience or not.

If you know what adventure you will running and what generic characters you will use, you can give each character 1 build-in talent and maybe 1 unique action card and some of the basic action cards that can be useful in the adventure.

This kind of thing is what got me to buy the game.

After seeing this video by Sean Conners I immediately went out to buy the core set, and afterwards bought every other product in the line.

I'm a willing participant for the WFRP 3E grass-roots GM armada even though my alottment of play time currently sucks.

If anyone in the Portland, OR metro area is very curious about 3rd edition but can't quite bring themselves to toss out a few c notes on the gear...by all means drop me a PM via the forums here and we will get something scheduled so that I can corrupt you to the cause.

Emirikol & Gitzman! Stop this thread-jacking. Your topic is way too important to be lost because of "I can't find the correct topic!"-phenomenon.

As for the original topic: One of the things helping this game to spread are the dedicated fans. There are a lot of us working for nothing to improve the gaming experience for all. I think that giving something for the community is like putting money into bank as I'm sure that FFG has its ear on the ground of what the fans are speaking. So make your own contributions and DO NOT FORGET to give feedback to those who do it. I can live without the feedback but I'm pretty certain there are some folks there ready to give up doing stuff for fans as it might seem that no-one cares.

I'm ready to admit that I have my own cow in the ditch with this one.

Even though I'm pretty sure that there are only a handful of people here who can understand why the heck I'm talking about cows.

I'm doing my part. I'm running games of WFRP 1st ed, WFRP 2nd Ed, Epic set in Warhammer and even a RoleMaster game in WFRP