My questions are concerning the alternate path offered by "Daemon Hunter" for the Techpriest, the Techsorcist and the offers from Ascension.

First concerning the Techsorcist, it seems to me, that there are several oversights in the advances, that this path offers.

First, this path offers the advances Common Lore: Imperium +10 and Common Lore: Imperial Creed +10, which makes no sense, as these options are already part of the fifth level of the Techpriest, at the excat same cost. Should this instead be a +20 for both? By the way, these are regularly offered by the normal advancement.

Second, the Forbidden Lore: Tech Heresy turns up in this advancement, but only there and just up to +10? Should this be another Forbidden Lore or should there somewhere be the option to take the last +20 advancement? Or should this be a different Forbidden Lore altogether, I am even unsure, which thematic it covers and I'm suspicious that it greatly overlaps with the Forbidden Lore: Heresy.

Third, why does this list contain the Forbidden Lore: Adeptus Mechanicus? A skill which can already be bought at rank 1? And is already closed by rank 5 with the +20?

All in all, it seems a rather sloppy work, that this rather short alternate path contains so many mistakes?

And now to the Magos from Ascension.

How can a Techpriest/Magos buy the advancements that are requiring a Fellowship of 50 like Good Reputation? If the character comes from a Hive World and had the luck to roll a 20 and got the Imperial Divination, that grants a bonus of +3 for Fellowship, the character hovers by a Fellowship of 48, still 2 points short and I don't know of another way to increase the Fellowship of a Techpriest, as they cannot buy advancements for this trait.

Am I missing something?

Thanks for answers in advance.

Often skills are added to advancement lists just to make them complete. Or in the event that someone takes an alternate rank and thus can not take it.

It's the same reason every career lists all the starting skills with costs on rank 1.

About the magos: I remember something about the magos using int instead of fel for those. At least as prerequisite.

Umbranus said:

Something rings with this, but only a dim memory. Cant say from where i heard this before, but i heared something in this regard before. Somewhere.

Tech Heresy and Heresy are two radically different things.

Heed the Higher Call has the info about the Magos.

From Heeding the Higher call (for those that don't really care to jump over):

" Knowledge is Power : The Magos Ascended Career may use his Intelligence instead of his Fellowship to qualify for the prerequisites of all Peer and Good Reputation Talents."

Sorry for the late reply, what are the differences between Tech-Heresy and Heresy and where can I get some information about Tech-Heresy?

That's easy. Lemme recite the The Mysteries and Warnings:

"The Mysteries of the Cult Mechanicus"

Life is directed motion.

The spirit is the spark of life.

Sentience is the ability to learn the value of knowledge.

Intellect is the understanding of knowledge.

Sentience is the basest form of Intellect.

Understanding is the True Path to Comprehension.

Comprehension is the key to all things.

The Omnissiah knows all, comprehends all.

"The Warnings of the Cult Mechanicus"

The alien mechanism is a perversion of the True Path.

The soul is the conscience of sentience.

A soul can be bestowed only by the Omnissiah.

The Soulless Sentience is the enemy of all.

The knowledge of the ancients stands beyond question.

The Machine Spirit guards the knowledge of the Ancients.

Flesh is fallible, but ritual honours the Machine Spirit.

To break with ritual is to break with faith.

The interpretation of these 16 Universal Laws can then be derived what the limits of what Tech-Heresy is in addition to proscribed acts the Omnissiah had decreed before internment upon the Golden Throne.

Sigismund said:

Schwarzie said:

Head the Higher Call under Dark Heresy / Support / Gaming Aids

Thanks for the info, didnt know that supplement

Sigismund said:

This is the difference between Tech-Heresy and Heresy? Something most of the higher members of the Adeptus Mechanicus need to know, in ordner not to get trouble/executed by the AM? And this is only available for Rank 6 Techpriest, who choose an alternative path? Don't make me laugh.

Please could someone tell me what encompasses Tech-Heresy, which is not already covered with other Lore Talents? Especially, what it makes so special, that only a selected few have access to it? What makes it worth, to get this skill?

Your general type of Heresy that's usually referred to when I say "YOU'RE A DIRTY HERETIC!" implies that they have a difference of doctrine/opinon to the Imperial Creed. Dealing with individual or in equipment that's associated with Mutants/Traitors/Chaos/Xenos, disparaging/acting in notable opposition to the Ecclesiarchy and/or the God-Emperor of Mankind are the most notable examples of Heresy to the Imperial Creed.

Now take "Ecclesiarchy" and replace it with "Mechanicus" and "God-Emperor of Mankind" with "Omnissiah/Machine God". Insert the creation of Abominable Intelligence and significant obstruction/opposition to the Search for Knowledge and you have your general Tech-Heresy.

Aside from Abominable Intelligence one can rule-of-thumb it with Tech-Heresy and Heresy usually being in consensus on the same subject. There are differences in minor points on what will piss off a tech-priest and what doesn't prompt a blink from a cleric (like jury rigging machinery) but the stuff that will get the Ordos brought down on your head is the stuff they both agree on.

Basicly

Xenos tech sucks, we're better in every way

Unsanctioned warp-tech is bad (read Mechanicum, 11th book of the Horus Heresy and find out why)

There's no need to invent because all the knowledge already exists (and the Omnissiah has all the secret decoder rings hidden somewhere)

You suck for destroying data storage (as knowledge is sacred and so are the devices that preserve them)

Don't do stuff that @#$%ed us over before (like Men of Iron, opening doors we were told not to open by the Omnissiah)

and a bunch more that doesn't require a Magos to figure out if he doesn't have his head too far up his rear waste-ducts trying to rationalize it away.

Thanks for the more detailed reply. FL Tech Heresy still seems to encompass only a small thematic. Or does it also encompass such things, like what happened during the Horus Heresy on Mars, or the damage, that can be done by corrupted codes? And yes, I already read Mechanicum

And another question came to me, what skills are used to build something like a multikey or other things like stummer and bionics excluding weapons/armour (which are already covered).

LC1984 said:

I wouldn't say it's small (remember, the Phaeonites are big on using tech to harness Warp) but it does have a lot of overlap with regular Heresy and where Imperial Creed does not cover, the original decrees from the Emperor cover all the major areas. Appreciation for just the major/minor points of tech-heresy would probably be found in FL (Adeptus Mechanicus). Of course, this is subject to the GM. IMO, FL (Adeptus Mechanicus) functions similar to FL (Inquisition) for them as Tech-Heresy is very specific compared to Heresy in general.

If it's not covered under another trade you probably will have to fudge it through Tech-Use. IMO, bionic design requires Medicae as well (proper understanding of anatomy and neuroscience to program the MIU interface) assuming there's nothing else that would be covered elsewhere (like making a concealed weapon bionic or a direct graft). Multikeys (or the Stummer) would probably desire Security to accompany Tech-Use in design. Aside from design and implementation, the extra skills are not required for fabrication/assembly if you are just following a schematic by rote (but you'd probably get a bonus for having it). Again, these are purely my suggestion for how to pave over these gray areas.