I have the core set, and a few rules questions have come up.
Nymeria: She kneels to keep a character from being killed, I believe. As she is an attachment, what is the effect of being knelt?
What is the advantage of attaching a location to your house card?
Finally, characters who are discarded from your had, do they go to the discard or dead pile?
Thanks!
Knelt attachments: I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. Can you elaborate? Nymeria is knelt for its ability, then stands in the standing phase. That's all there really is to it.
Locations as attachments: If you think your opponent has more ways of getting rid of locations than he has to get rid of attachments, then the card will be safer played as an attachment. In the current environment, though, I would probably always play it as a location.
Discarded from hand: Any card that's discarded goes to the discard pile.
1. Knelt cards cant be knelt again. well... to be technical, cant be knelt to pay costs. meaning you couldnt save the attached character a second time with nymeria. Its simply a way of showing that nymeria's ability has been exhausted for that round (or until she has been stood by another effect).
2. Depending on what deck you are playing against, attachments may be safer from removal effects than locations. (Though these days, usually not...) otherwise the chambers/tent work just as they would as a location.
3. Cards which are discarded, go to the "discard" pile. no matter from where (play/hand/deck). only reasons cards get put into dead piles are if they are characters that get "killed", or a card effect specifically tells you to.
Do note characters that get "discarded" from play also go to the discard pile. as they were discarded and not killed.
Saturnine said:
oshi said:
I think what he really wants to know here is that all cards stand and kneel separately. Kneeling a character does not automatically kneel all of its attachments, or vice versa. So kneeling Nymeria to save the attached character does not force you to kneel the character, nor does kneeling the character to do something like attack or defend kneel Nymeria (making it impossible to use the attachment's ability).
So, kneeling the attachment means nothing as far as kneeling/standing the character, and kneeling the character means nothing as far as kneeling/standing the attachment. You stand and kneel them independently.
Thank you all for your answers. The nymeria question (and answer) seems pretty strait forward, now that you say it. That was the answer I was looking for.
Can I verify, as well, that, when you need to kill someone for a military loss, that's what the "save" ability is for? So for instance, if you can use Nymeria every round you've lost a military to Kill it's character and then Save that character and this would count as having killed the Character?
C
Yes. That is indeed the point of save effects. After the effect (including MIL claim) initiates, you interrupt it and stop the character from being killed. But since the effect did initiate, you don't have to go backwards and come up with a character that actually WILL die.
Neat. Also, Bran Stark's Plot ability can activate after plots resolve, yes? I figured since it isn't a response, it must have to wait.
You can either use Bran's ability before any plots are revealed by players in the Plot phase, or after all of them are resolved. Many people prefer to use him before any plots are revealed so that he doesn't have to survive everyone's plots.
Why would you use him before you've revealed your plot?
Corinos said:
Okay, in detail:
The order of the plot phase is:
So, you can use Bran in either Player Actions #1 or #2. Bran's ability lets you reveal a plot, on your own, as if you were revealing a plot with everyone else in the usual place the game tells you to. No matter which way you play him, you will end up revealing two different plots in the same phase - and the second one you reveal will be your active one through the rest of the round.
So, Way #1 to use Bran is to reveal a plot with everyone else in the "All players choose and reveal a plot" step, wait for all the plots to resolve, then kneel him to reveal a second plot afterwards in "Player Actions #2".
The other way (Way #2) to use Bran is to reveal a plot in "Player Actions #1," then reveal a second plot with everyone else in the regular "All players choose and reveal a plot" stop.
Now, one of the most common things you see happen with Bran is to first reveal a low gold/low claim plot with a powerful effect, then to reveal a higher gold/claim plot to have for the rest of the round. For example, when your opponent has about 3x more characters on the board than you, you might want to reveal Valar Morghulis to kill all characters, but then you'll be stuck with a 2-0-0 plot for the rest of the round. Bran could let you have a new plot for the rest of the round with better stats.
But if Bran is killed when your first plot is revealed, he won't be around to let you reveal a second. So if you choose Way #1 to use Bran, not only does he need to survive your plot effect, he has to survive your opponent's as well! Because if he dies in the "All players choose and reveal a plot," he won't be around for you to use in "Player Actions #2). And you don't get your second plot! But if you use Way #2, he doesn't have to survive the plot at all. You reveal your first plot in "Player Actions #1," then every player reveals a plot (your second, everyone else's first) in "All players..." automatically.
So, Way #2 ensures that you always get 2 plots with Bran. There are times when Way #1 is better, but that assurance of getting to use Bran's effect makes Way #2 much more common.
I have to say, you guys are super helpful and timely with your responses. I'm doing my best to get more players involved in the game in my area and having such quick answers to my questions helps immensely!
ktom, really nice, specific breakdown of when and how to use Bran's plot ability. I've discovered from reading your post that I had been using him incorrectly (I don't play Stark much) -- in a game I played yesterday, I chose Valar Morghulis as my first plot of a reconstituted plot deck (we had cycled through all plots once), we all revealed, then I knelt Bran to do away with VM as I had a number of strong Stark characters in play and wanted to keep them up (and also wanted the option of not playing VM for 13 more rounds!). But of course, as per your breakdown, at the reveal plots resolve, and so technically I knelt Bran too late -- he'd already have died from the effect of VM. I must also have misread the card text, because I thought his plot effect only dealt with the Stark player's plot card, but if I'm reading your post correctly, his kneel forces all players to choose a new plot. So, once again, nice clarification; I feel as though I've got a better grip on Bran's plot tactics.
mjs said:
but if I'm reading your post correctly, his kneel forces all players to choose a new plot.
You must have misread something. Bran does not affect your opponents.
So now you understand that the best way to do what you wanted with Valar Morghulis is to reveal it first with Bran (killing him, unless you save him) and then reveal a new plot along with everyone else during the normal "reveal plots" part of the Plot phase?
schrecklich said:
mjs said:
I wasn't aware that the first plot chosen would actually resolve, as I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) that that was the point of his ability -- you're down to that last plot card that you don't particularly want to use, and he gives you a way to avoid its effects (or so I thought). I hadn't thought of it in terms of net gain, that one might actually be able to see both plots resolve. But thanks again for the clarification.