On p. 295 of Gaia, the rules state that Natura+20 is the maximum degree by which a person can exceed his base racial Natura. Using the table on that same page, in which human/Nephilim Natura is listed as 0, that seems to suggest that basically any PC or NPC is limited to a Gnosis of 20. This really doesn't seem to work for a couple of reasons. 1st, it renders all the spells above level 80 useless, since one has to have a Gnosis of at least 25 to cast high magic and 40 to cast divine magic. Obviously, only exceptionally high level characters should be capable of that sort of magic, but it seems to me that the basic premise and a lot of the fun of Anima is that they are capable of it. 2nd, for instance, while maybe Eljared isn't human, using the table I mentioned before it doesn't seem as though there is any way that she would have a Gnosis that makes sense of the power that she is portrayed as having. 20 just doesn't seem to work considering the way in which she is described as interacting with a lot of other characters, organizations, and powers.

I'm really considering starting up a game as GM, and I've spent a good bit of time working up some characters of various power levels just to get a feel for the interaction of the setting and the mechanics of the game, and this problem reflects a larger trend of the rules and fluff not quite working out to me. I know I could homerule a couple of things, but I hate to start out by immediately changing things around. Not necessarily looking for advice, but would love to hear thoughts and how everyone has worked it out in their own games. Thanks!

A player can't get above Natura 20. They can, however, get Gnosis 25-30 by becoming a different race (With spells like Chimera, or other supernatural abilities) or by being granted it by the gods (certain Elan abilities).

Also they can technically get these abilities at level 1. Not that a GM should allow that.

Note: A player is Never allowed to get Gnosis 40+ or divine magic because...divine magic is game breaking really. If a GM wants to they can allow the player to get this high, but it is ill advised as it would make players (specifically wizards), for all intents and purposes, gods.

i like they way you think, just getting that out there btw. also, since characters are supposed to be exceptional people, i would allow special cases after a long game at very high levels.

Natura gives additional abilities beyond what Gnosis has, and while allowing more Gnosis at high levels might work, there are no rules for higher Natura so you would have to house rule that you can get it and what it means.

To reply to both of your posts, it really seems to me that Natura and Gnosis are one and the same thing essentially. The statement "These unique subjects have a Gnosis higher than the rest of their species, a Natura greater than their base race" on p. 295 of Gaia seems to use the two terms interchangeably. The table on that same page states that a human's Natura is 0, so to say that a Natura+20 is the highest that can be attained seems to limit a human's Gnosis to 20. I agree that divine magic could be a game-breaker and I appreciate your thoughts, I guess my point is let's not pretend that game-breakers don't have a place in Anima. Not trying to pick an argument or anything, it just seems to me that there is clearly a little bit of confusion within the rules on this issue.

Sorry, a bit more to say,

One, I appreciate the info., and from looking around you really do know the game so don't mean to be a newb stepping on toes, where is the spell Chimera? I'd really just rather not pick through the books until I find it.

Two, to add to what I said about game-breakers, Kisidan is said to have been given the rank Godkiller, so that's why the issue of "god-like" or divine abilities just doesn't seem to me to be the issue in Anima that it is in most games.

Again, thanks.

I think, that human-characters can have Gnosis above 20, but their Natura never gets higher than +20 (its something like "+20 or higher"). For example: A not natural being can't have natura, but it can have Gnosis. Because of that, I don't see the reason, why an natural being (human) shouldn't have an Gnosis higher than 20 (or by other races also higher (Ebudan higher 30 and so on)), but a Natura of +20.

And the book says, that a character can't exceed the natura of his race more as 20 points.

And I agree with Lia Valenth: Divine magic is game breaking. And because of Kishidan and his rang as "God-Killer": It isn't known, if Kishidan had killed a god or not.

So long,

Godkiller is a rank in the Imperium, I think. It doesn't mean they've actually killed a God. It's much like Sergeant in the military, a title.

And here's a thread that talks a little about the Gnosis and hypothoses on some of the major players in the game. Keep in mind, Anima: Tactics has a lot more information on some of this stuff than we do in the RPG community. Enough that I really am planning on picking up the miniatures rule book, Anima: Saga I & II for the background info presented there-in. Also, a lot of this gets discussed semi-regularly on the official forums. I know some people go back and forth between them on here. May want to consider the same.

http://cipher-studios.com/AnimaBB/index.php?PHPSESSID=c8849e5ec115e948c8bab1e73227e8d8&topic=4136.0

Definitely a point in what I think is the right direction, don't know if anyone else really cares but since I brought it up:

"Some spells or abilities, such as Chimera or Overcome Death, are able to alter the essence of people along with their Gnosis. In such cases, when transcending to a different existential state, they will retain the same importance they had before, but cannot keep using their Natura advantages."

So, basically, sort of like what Lia was saying earlier (my apologies), once Gnosis reaches 20+ Natura no longer applies because they have reached a state of being so different from their base race.

If you change your race to something unnatural you lose your natura, because then you are not a natural being. But if you change your race to a different natural race you might keep your Natura. If a humans soul with Natura 10, and thus has Gnosis 10, is placed in an elf they might still have Natura 10 (giving them Gnosis 15, 5 from elf and 10 from bonus Natura). This means if someone has or somehow obtains +20 Natura the maximum Gnosis they can obtain is 30 by transfering their soul to a Ebudan. If they stop being a natural creature, like as I noted Chimera [the level 80 creation spell if you still want to know] or the level 80 essense spell, or something else, which make you a being between worlds/spirit/etc. Because you are not natural you don't gain the advantage of natural.

Basically a human can not have more than 20 Gnosis because, if you did, you would no longer be a human by definition. You might look the same, but with Gnosis 25+ you have gone beyond humanity and are no longer classified as such. Much as Merszoso was just saying.