So i didn't play Martell at GenCon, and Ghaston Grey didn't hit the table against me, but I wanted to double check, since I keep hearing about it in so many TR's and in 2C1CLP.

Is the basic strategy for using this to return dupes of your own nobles (Arianne and Red Viper I'm guessing) to your hand to minimize the damage to yourself while using this against the opponent? If not, what am I missing? Do people use nobles other than those two to power it usually?

Thanks folks!

Shenanigans said:

The cheapest (so the best) is Edric Dayne who is the Brotherhood 3-cost one (with a decent ability as well).

It is really awesomeness to use him in a challenge, or Game of Cyvasse, and then get him. Since it is any time during the challenge, it keeps your opponent very off guard. Combo with Game and V. Blade and you have some serious board control. Lastly, it doesn't kneel, so if you want, you can use Arianne AND Edric on the same turn if you have the $$ and it makes sense.

~I TRIED to tell the 2C1chump folks how broken it was right when it came out, but they rated it in the bottom 5 of that chapter pack. And I will never let them forget it...

rings said:

As well you shouldn't, especially since Greg played three copies of it in his deck.

Yes, Edric Dayne would be good for that, wouldn't he? Thanks for the knowledge Rings!

Shenanigans said:

You cannot return a duplicate to use Ghaston Grey.

Saturnine said:

You mean the duplicate won't return to your hand but will instead be discarded to save from the "return to your hand" effect, or am I missing something?

Saturnine said:

Thanks Saturnine; I wasn't thinking there; you'd have to discard the duplicates.

So my question is how does Martell maximize the benefit of GG while minimizing the damage to themselves? Is it just based on the choice of opposing character? I can see how sending back a multi-chained Robert or a character with tons of power would be killer, but is that really it?

Paddosan said:

I mean a duplicate doesn't match the "noble character" limitation. And you cannot save a card from leaving play as part of a cost.

Shenanigans said:

In the current environment, that is plenty. Ultimately, it's like any other card with a strong effect and a strong drawback; you play it when you think the effect hurts your opponent more than the drawback hurts you.

Really the ideal way to use it is to use your noble crested character (either in a challenge, to trigger Cyvasse, etc.) and then to return it to your hand once already knelt, maximizing your use of the character on that particular round.

Shenanigans said:

This really needs to be the permanent new abbreviation. That would be awesome.

To add to what rings said. Here was the conversation Erick and I had nearly every day this summer.

Me: seems like dealing with the "big maester" is going to be the key to gencon

Him: yep...just no good way to do that with good cards. can't burn (collar), good players will avoid cyvasse (collar), lanni can kneel...but Robert will just stand

Me: any good attachment control

Him: nothing great, but still playing Ill tidings just to try and hit the collar for non printed maesters

...rinse...repeat...

then one day

Me: If there were some way to just bounce a maester that would be sweet

Him: not a lot of bounce in the game...there is some crappy martell location that allows you to bounce your noble and any of their characters

Me: any good martell nobles?

Him: arianne and red viper...not really things you want to bounce and repay to play. Edric too but he sucks

Me: What's he cost

Him: 3

Me: So what exactly does this location say?

---pull up agotcards---

Him: 1 cost (good), doesn't kneel (good), noble doesn't kneel (good)...oh man. You realize you can attack or cyvasse, then bounce the noble back. We should test this it might be good

---testing destroys stark, martell, and bara---

Me: Hope people don't play winter choke...

Me: This means they can never print a 2 cost martell noble...

papalorax said:

This is my problem - I assume they will have to restrict the card someday, otherwise they can not print any more 3 OR 2 strength nobles IMHO. Or anything that gives the noble trait. ~Martell restricted card #84 FTW!!!

I've already started a Targ/Martell Alliance build using recurring The Dragon's Blood and Dany's Chambers to abuse Ghaston Grey on 0 cost characters. Unfortunately with the amount of links floating around attachment based controls pretty unstable atm imho

Mathias Fricot said:

Dragon's blood is targaryen character only... you'd need an OOH imposter! to make it work.

Thanks for the behind the scenes audio lorax, and everyone for the insights.

Mathias, Ire, I like the idea of a Stark/Martell crossover for this card. Getting all the moving parts in order might be tough, but with Impostor and Old Nan (heck, maybe even one of those copper links I've been hearing so much about ) Ghaston is cheap enough that paying the OOH penalty won't be horrid, and Stark has the trait manipulation to make it usable. I can see interesting possibilities using LoW Catelyn (who will jump back in when you need her anyway) and either version of Sansa (more important for the 2-cost) This might even be a fun addition to the Stark Maester decks I've been hearing murmurs about for a while now.

rings said:

~ Haven´t we been used to noble-charachter- free Martell decks since the release of Devious mechinations. ;-)

This is phenomenal. Use Weeping Water to recur "Imposter!" and throw it on the cheap stark nobles. Like Core Sansa. Or Shadows Littlefinger. Or Cat. This looks like so much fun. It's almost like your playing as house Stark, and then using your influence and gold to make people think they are Boltons, and nobody trusts a Bolton, so they are forced leave play! Nedly. I love it.

Mathias Fricot said:

Ahh yes, Shadows LIttlefinger would be great too.

I was thinking of using Bronze and Lead Link to recur Impostor (among other fun Stark attachments, like Frozen Solid) Black Iron link will be nice for adding Intrigue icons, and Valyrian Steel link for draw.

Add in Bay of Ice or Kingdom of Shadows and Impostor will really give a strength bump too.

a 1 cost +5 str attachment never hurt anybody... except your opponents.

Shenanigans said:

Would be great except he has "No Condition attachments" and Imposter! is one.

your raining on this parade here goshdarnstud

Would it be a "Freezing" rain!?!? You see if Shennanigans makes this deck and it's awesome, he's going to play it against ME! So therefore, I have to prevent that from happening.

Maybe they'll give the next version of Arianne a war crest.

Mathias Fricot said:

He's excellent at that.

True, but Littlefinger should be in any Stark Shadows deck.

What about adding in the likes of Jack of All Trades (not Bruce Campbell, but the card)?

With all the nobles floating around, Guilty! would be pretty sharp (heh heh) and Distinct Mastery might be nice too.

Shenanigans said:

I'm so proud that someone else remembers that show!