Does anyone else find the opposed roll mechanic slightly clumsy?

This is one area where the D20 system has advantages over the DH system i.e. one roll sets the difficulty of the opposed roll.

I say this because at low level the chances of the two parties failing their roles is pretty fair. Rather than just re-rolling as per the rules, which for me seems a tad artificial and forced, I have been toying with the idea of basing it on degrees of failure, thus avoiding the need to re-roll in the majority of cases.

That's what I've been doing.

The opposed roll in the DH system has the benefit that it allows for a "no result" outcome, that is: if both characters fail their rolls you can rule the outcome as a stalemate with neither side getting the upper hand. You don't have to re-roll immediately.

For example you can play out an armwrestling competition round-by round rather than resolve it in the first round. This may give the Scum the time to pick-pocket the merchant watching from across the bar.

A character fails his Concealment test, but the guard also fails his Perception test. The character hesitates and does not move that turn, but he hasn't bee spotted yet. While the character hesitates a patrol comes around the corner, further complicating things for the character.

-K

I do it the exact same way as Kjakan( a fellow norwegian maybe?), and in situations where an outcome has to be made in the first test I simply use degrees of failure as well as sucess.

Jackal_Strain said:

Ditto

Action_Carl said:

And I as well, do so.

aramis said:

Same here.

Snidesworth said:

<Joins bandwagon>

Fantasy Flight Games take note...

I use the same rule..

Though it was funny to see the players face when he actually managed to hide from a guard by failing with 5 degrees...the guard failed by 6...

Truly pathetic...but funny...

Jackal_Strain said:

yep, this is how I do it too. Seems pretty reasonable to me and offers more than one possible outcome.

Bandwagon iz teh joined

kjakan said:

Agreed in this regard. One thing that seems to be often forgotten about Opposed Tests when discussing them on the forums is that only very rarely (if ever) are they representative of two characters performing the same activity in direct opposition; rather, as with Concealment and Perception, or with the Strength tests in a Grapple, one character is attempting to accomplish something while the other is attempting (if only by merit of his presence) to stop him.

In many of those sorts of situations, the stalemate result can be entirely appropriate.

So, if there's a Slaught-addled Ogryn attempting to batter down the door into the room the group is hidden within, the Ogryn makes a Strength test to overcome the obstructing door... while the characters in the room make Strength tests against the Ogryn to hold the door, whether through brute force or stacking furniture, etc. If the Ogryn passes or fails, it determines his progress... a sufficient success from those defending allow them to halt the Ogryn's progress (as in a grapple, the defender has nothing to gain with any given test - he tests to resist the attacker's action)... if both fail, then it's no big deal, carry on next turn.

Cardinalsin said:

Me too!

Replicant253 said:

Thats pretty much how we do it. As GM I roll the opposition and say, "You succeed if you fail by less than 2 degrees" or "You need to succeed by 3 degrees"

Easy peasy.

Yeah I agree it seems a bit clumsy but it really isn't that bad, it's just different which can make it seem clumsy until you get a hang of it.

When performing Opposed tests I always look at the relative difference between successes or failures, rather than the stat itself.

An opposed Strength test for arm wrestling. If you fail by 2 Degrees, you have suddenly given up, you've just not put as much force into the wrestle as you could have. If however your opponent fails by 3 degrees, well they've put even LESS force into their test than you did. Which means you win.

The only way to tie in this is if you both get the same DoF or DoS. Otherwise one will win over the other, simply by not being quite as crap as them.

An example with two different stats: Concealment. You fail to conceal by 1 DoF, so your head is sticking out. The guard fails his Perception test by 2 DoF, which means he was looking in the wrong direction.

So long as your opponent fails worse than you did, you win.

Hellebore