Ok, I'm trying to get a good handle on how to develop characters as you level up. I know that the game is free form and allows for all kinds of builds for all kinds of classes, but... there has to be some sort of base line, right? I mean, otherwise, level becomes more and more meaningless as you get higher levels (because of the disparity between a character who goes all in and one that doesn't). A 10th level Weapon Master with 50% DP in atk and def straight across the board is vastly different (and arguably more effective) than one who spent lots of points picking up modules and weapon proficiences.

Anyway, since there are not a lot of guidelines beyond the NPCs in the first book, and many of those seem to be built in a sub-par fashion (the level 1 NPCs have very little combat skill, even the warriors, for example), I'm curious what people find is a good amount to spend on:

Fighters/Weapon Masters

How much into atk/def and how much should go into modules/mk/etc?

Wizards

How much zeon? How many accumulation? When I'm level 10, how much zeon should I be able to generate in one round? What about when I'm level 5?

Domine

How much do I spend on atk and def versus accumulation and ki? How quickly should I be able to throw out Techniques? How much accumulation is good at level 1? Level 5? Level 10? Because it seems like if I can't get something going by round 2 at the least, that equal level fighter will have killed me. This is the question that interests me the most.

Thanks for you help!

Due to the free form advancement this is a very difficult question, however,

In my experience placing the maximum amount in whatever your attack/defense power is is more useful than any amount of Zeon, Ki, or Psychic Points, etc. you can acquire (There are exceptions, but for general purpose...) so for fighting classes only 10% of DP should be spent towards other things.

This means that a fighter class should have 75 attack and defense at level 1 +12.5 attack and defense every level, unless they specialize in attack or defense in which case one should be 25 points lower and the other should be 25 points higher than noted (with class bonus);
1 - 75 (80)
2 - 87.5 (97.5)
3 - 100 (115)
4 - 112.5 (132.5)
5 - 125 (150)
6 - 137.5 (167.5)
7 - 150 (185)
8 - 162.5 (202.5)
9 - 175 (220)
10 - 187.5 (237.5)

A psion or wizard is the same, projection should be as high as possible and they should spend the other 30% of their DP on Zeon/MA or PP. Once again ignoring stat bonuses (and a wizards imbalance):
1 - 90
2 - 105
3 - 120
4 - 135
5 - 150
6 - 165
7 - 180
8 - 195
9 - 210
10 - 225

*as that these do not include stat bonuses there should be another +5-25 to the score

There are of course hundreds of reasons to change these numbers if you feel the character could use it, but I find this is a good baseline for making NPC's. If a character decides to decrease this number it's their fault when they are trounced by a person who kept it at maximum.

As Per Zeon/Ma

MA: Magic Accumulation is dependent on many factors. However, for the most part, I use these guidelines;
At level 1 your MA should be high enough to use whatever shield your wizard knows as a passive action. aprox: 40-60
by level 6 the wizard should be able to use a shield as a passive action even at 1/2 MA. aprox: 80-120
That is really all I go by, besides that it depends on the caster.

Zeon: A wizard should start with around 250 at level 1 before DP. I find it is best to place any leftover DP into Zeon after MA, as that they have ~150 base +100/level (therefore ~1150 by level 10 without DP)

The problem with this is each wizard will find MA and Zeon different usefulness, and depend a lot on the GM. For example if the GM has days or weeks between battles Zeon is much less important. However if your GM has you fighting 2-3 times a day you need a lot of Zeon.

Domine;

I find atk and defense are better than any Ki techniques (except ones that increase attack/defense, but decreasing your attack/defense in order to use ki to get it back up to normal seems pointless...) If you have weakened attack/defense you can be killed by a fighter who does not need time, but if you have maximum attack/defense and enhance that with techniques you can fight about on par with the fighter, then have your power boosted with a technique.

Your Ki Accumulation should be high enough to use at least one ability on your first turn. Most abilities should not take more than two turns to accumulate for, one round at 1/2 accumulation and one at full accumulation. Unless it is a finishing technique it should not take longer than 5 turns to charge at 1/2 Accumulation. This means either increasing your Accumulation for your techniques, or weakening your techniques to accommodate your lower Accumulation.

DISCLAIMER: I want to reiterate that this is an opinion from my experience and may differ from the general consensus.

For summoners 40 points below what's required to affect creatures of your level (assuming no ritual modifiers) Is what I set summon, control, bind and banish to. At least with my level 7 summoner

I personally really like those values. At lower levels you have to dump one of those abilities though which sucks. Finding the names, objects, and parts of lower level creatures should be easier than doing the same for high level creatures though so if you or your GM is accommodating that could help.

Also summoners need the zeon regeneration and increased mana/lvl advantages which means despite what the book says (Book says summoners don't need the gift) that they do indeed need magic if they don't want to suck. Unless you houserule that they don't need magic for those advantages. Another alternative is to let them take a magic disadvantage since it won't be a detriment to them as a summoner anyway.

Also zeon regen mults cost 1/2 the price of accumulation multiples

NPC summoners are different from PC summoners in some ways since you can give them NPC apprentices to give them higher rolls on their skills through shared rituals.

BTW if you have a DEVA nephilim you wouldn't get a bonus to control and bind for a creature you freshly summoned if you didn't know it's name before you summoned it because you have to use those skills while the creature is still appearing (ie before you have it's name) to have your ritual bonus. (unless your not messing with ritual bonus and taking the chance of it attacking you/running away.) <<<<<This will be relevant in October

Interesting. Thanks for the input Lia.

I'm curious as to why this is, why does one need to cap out the atk/def at every level? Is this how the monsters are set up in Those Who Walk among Us? Or the style of your GM?

It also seems...I don't know, a bit sad that a 10th level character will only have 150 points spent on things outside of pure numbers. So all the weapon proficiencies and Wear Armor and Combat Modules and even the Martial Arts for the Tao and Ki for the Technician get passed over in favor of simply bigger numbers.

I'm beginning to wonder if I should limit it to 40% in my games, and force characters to spend the points on the various other options just to make sure they see use.

Anyway, not a slight or argument or anything, just what you said had me thinking. Thanks again.

Anyone else have any other input?

Oh, thanks for the Summoner info as well.

'power ranger syndrome' has an irc group i spectate well described. every character has one strong primary and secondary focus, putting a lot of things to use; they have a water wizard/healer, a PK powerhouse/swardsman (straight ment, not men/war), a light/air/essence/creation caster, and a weaponmaster/diplomat.

while they all have great stuff from outside their normal flavors, they can't do crap without each other for very long, when characters do a lot of things they need others to compliment what they couldn't acquire or don't have enough numbers in. i prefer to game this way, teamwork and all that you know.

Tywyll said:

It took me some time but I realized why this is a bad idea. By decreasing the maximum you can put into attack/defense players have a lower attack/defense (duh) but this means they can not obtain abilities as quickly - Ars Magnus, Martial Arts, and Impossible Weapons have a minimum attack and/or defense. Therefore players would be unable to obtain these slower, not a problem if everyone has Ki abilities, but this skews the balance of power in favor of magic and psionics who can access their abilities no matter what their projection it. You could modify every Ars Magnus et al. but to do so would probably create an imbalance anyway.

My solution was to allow an additional 5-10% DP for these abilities, depending on class archetype.

Lia Valenth said:

Yeah, I don't agree.

For one thing, the numbers are arbitrary. So if everyone and everything in the world has the same limitations, they remain balanced.

For another, the Ars Magnus, Impossible Weapons, and the limited MA, all come out of DE. While I have that book and use a lot of it, I refuse to accept that access to Ars Magnus or Impossible weapons is required to make a martial character balanced. If they are, there is something fundamentally wrong with the system.

I like the tiered approach to MA, but I didn't feel it fair to have such high requirements for Tao when I wasn't doing something similar to TEchnicians or magicians so I'm more or less ignoring the attack and defense requirements (more or less treating it like in the Core book).

Now, I can't speak to Psionics, we don't use them in our game (nor summoning which I won't let get used till the **** monster book come out).

So, baring that in mind, I see no reason why 40% isn't a good idea. In fact, if anything, I think it would extend the life of a campaign. A common comment I've heard said about Anima is that around 5-8th level it can break down as characters are too powerful. This would help extend the longevity of a campaign by reducing what they can achieve too early. YMMV

I did the math for wizards and psychics, and it works if you allow them to use 41.6666...667% of their supernatural DP on Projection.

As per the Ars Magnus, Impossible Weapons, etc. the point of the attack and defense requirement is so that they don't have to make level requirements. Its like in D&D why a level 10 wizard can cast level 6 spells, but can't cast level 9 spells until much higher level (18th). If they could use the higher level spells the monsters of their level would be much weaker by comparison. (I make this comparison because most people playing anima have probably played D&D) But as the DM that's your choice, try it out and see how it works.