The new Tyrion Lannister card states that all knelt clansmen are participation in the challenge when Tyrion is in a challenge.

For example, when Tyrion is in an intrigue challenge and I have a knelt The Burned Men card , do they count their strength with Tyrion's even though they don't have an intrigue icon?

Does their ability work (provided all conditions are met)?

How would a character like The Black Ears work with Tyrion? If The Black Ears trigger their ability and target Tyrion, then all knelt clansmen should also leave the challenge since they are no longer eligible to participate, correct?

Let's ask this: say that Tyrion is declared as an attacker in an intrigue challenge. After defenders are declared, Tyrion loses his intrigue icon through some effect. Is he removed from the challenge? No, because "loses an intrigue icon" doesn't say anything about removing the character from the challenge. Does he count his STR when the challenge resolves? Sure, because the rules say "count the STR of the participating characters," not "count the STR of the participating characters that have the appropriate icon."

So it comes down to this: Icons have absolutely nothing to do with participation. They only have to do with whether or not the character can be declared as an attacker or defender. Declaring attackers/defenders is the only time anything in the game ever looks at the icons on the card. Clansmen characters are not "declared" as an attacker or defender when they become participants through Tyrion's ability, so their icon status is never even looked at, period. They count their STR at resolution because they are participating, not because they have an icon.

And once the characters are participating - for whatever reason - you treat them as any other "participating" character, abilities and all.

Now, since Tyrion's ability says "while" he is participating, his participation is required and must be maintained to keep the knelt Clansmen that only became participants because of his ability in the challenge as well. Removing him removes them, too. Of course, if the Clansmen became participants through some other effect (like, oh, being declared at the same time as Tyrion), they would not be removed just because Tyrion is removed. There is another, Tyrion-independent effect making them participants.

Clear and to the point , thank you.

ktom said:

Great explanation but this bit seems wrong. What about events like "Distraction"?

funkypea said:

He was talking with regards to challenges. There are other card effects that still look at icons.

funkypea said: