I'm assuming that a lot of the above matchups are combat oriented? Tannhauser really shines when missions / scenarios are used ..... and these require skills not sheer fire power

In the experienced players' view (there seem to be several round here) ..... Do skills make a difference?

I also assumed that the Matriarchy was designed like a hive-mind (comrades together are better than half assed individualism of the West ... Mwaaahaaa)

Am I way off the mark here?

Great to see this game getting some love and attention - hell I even liked the old rules

-Nhoj

Yeah, I enjoy the way the Matriarchy plays, as so different than the others.

And maybe it's different than I said before about writing themselves into a corner. Since they made Z'orka so powerful, and the characters in the Novgorod expansion support her, for each one of them you replace with a more normal stat-ed Matriarchy with no support abilities, she effectively gets weaker. She'll still have her very high base stats, but without the heals of the engineer or her special voivodes, she wouldn't be quite as "epic".

I still don't understand why the next Matriarchy release is a legendary character, just making this team harder to get a normalish team comp with.

Nhoj said:

That is where Georgi beats Wolf. Wolf in story modes is not the best option. Yes, he can select 2 skills, but I have never experienced that as a great advantage. Of course, Wolf has his own strong points depending on the circumstances.

By the way, most of the matches I played have been won by fullfilling goals, not by an extreme number of knockouts or complete annihilations....

vengeance000 said:

Ok returning to Tannhauser after a long time away and enjoying reading up on what's been happening in some of the older posts and this interesting chat, but to answer the above, as Grandclam said earlier...

"Now you can choose to play matriarchy, with Zorka, or the New Guard with Oksana and Natalya."

I agree it's making it harder to get a normalish team with the Matriarchy together, but perhaps that isn't what FFG has in mind. Afterall a lot of the attraction of them seems to be that they are different from the other factions?

Now a question of my own, if Epic is simply defined as having an extra row of stats, then doesn't that make Zorka epic by default even though there is no mention in the revised rule book. Op Nov is still on its way in the post so I admit I don't have Zorka yet, but she has got an extra row of stats, right!?!?

Ok, just found something that answered my own question- she does only have 4 rows.

I'll go back to being quiet and looking a bit sheepish...

One thing before I go, how does Oksana's stats compare to Zorka's?

Is Oksana worth getting, is she likely to see much play until Natlaya arrives - any good bonus tokens etc that make her worthwhile anyway?

Miah999: That still doesn't make much sense to me, because wolf can have the same bonus token and has much better use for it on overwatch. Wolf then gets 2 attacks with 4.5 successes on each roll, supposing he has att or stam pack. And at max, w/ att pack- Gorgei will have 4.5 on his first roll and like 2.7 on his second. Mind you those are all just generalizations and Wolf has to spend a CP, but he gets to attack before anything happens. Also, that is supposing that Wolf's player isn't upping his CV with another free point.

I also disagree about campaign-type missions, from the way that me and my friends have experienced. In most of our mission games, if one side starts going for objectives and the other all-out attacks- the objective team usually gets overwhelmed and wiped out. That's just how we play though, usually turns into a deathmatch sooner or later when one team starts losing manpower.

Pumpkin: Oksana is NOTHING like Zorka, at all. Zorka's voivodes back her up, Oksana backs up her voivodes. Oksana's voivodes move and act... alot! She has stronger powerups for them, and she can attack out of path- though it is rather weak. Imo, she is the most tactical character in the game. She takes up the amount of space that asteros does, but she is pretty darn frail. When near to her voivodes, though, SHE IGNORES WOUNDS!!!

The amount of play you will get with her will depend on what you like to play in Tannhauser. I like Matriarchy and Union so I use the New Guard team up stuff- she's in "my fav squad" and use her alot. She's most like Hoax and Ramirez, puts alot of annoying things down on the table.

Everybody: How does this sound for an anti-asteros Reich squad?

Heizinger w/ combat pack *obscura korps band (replace pistol)

Yula w/ command pack *shame of minos (replace silencer?)

Horbinger w/ command pack

x2 Shocktruppen w/ command

Play the team right, seems like Shocktruppen get 6 dice w/ very high CV and free overwatch. Yula can easily destroy all of Asteros' stuff. Asteros can only hit Hass by bull-rush or throwing the axe. Wait til Shocktruppen rolls 6 successes and use Reichdoktor, Asteros just basically took 3 automatic wounds from a trooper. With CP and band Heizinger has 8 or 9 MV, I forget, and can basically do whatever he wants with that.

GrandClam said:

I tried your team this afternoon, I only replaced Yula's Shame of Minos with Countess of Bathory (I hope this is spelled right) because I played Deathmatch mode. The team using Asteros only had 1 CP but every CP ability costed them 2 CP due to Hoss' Eye of Aekenathon (This time I know it's not spelled right), so it was no use adding the Shame of Minos.

The opposing Union team included Asteros (Stamina pack), MacNeal (Combat pack with Call in the troops instead of medal), Barry (Stamina Pack) and one Alpha (Combat pack with X5-NR Stabilizer instead of Smoke grenade).

The Reich team stayed close together to give the Shocktruppen a high CV and everybody an extra die from Heizinger. The Shocks were put on overwatch whenever they were in a good position, Heizinger and Hoss stayed behind them to support and use their out-of-path abilities, Yula tried to get into close combat to use Krueger. The Union entered the path held by the Reich in full force, sarificing the trooper to an overwatch attack from a Shock. The second overwatch attack targeted Barry but didn't score a single wound due to horrible dice rolls. Barry, MacNeal and Asteros attacked and killed Yula and a Shock while Heitzinger and Hoss failed to damage them, Heizinger even wasted his Sha-na-na because he rolled two 1's while targeting Barry. He was more successful the next turn, taking control of MacNeal with his amulet and forcing him to attack Asteros. MacNeal rolled 7 successes, wounding Asteros 3 times. Unfortunately the Reich was unable to wound Asteros again. Hoss tried several times, but rolled too many Natural 1's that canceled several of his successes. Barry killed the remaining Shock and the reintroduced Alpha chased down Heizinger after damaging him with a grenade. In the end, Barry, MacNeal, Asteros and Alpha cornered Hoss so he was unable to avoid all of their attacks. He was brought down by Asteros throwing his axe.

Summary: The Shock roll a lot of dice and have a high AV, but they never rolled 6 successes and they were brought down quickly by massive firepower of the Union. Yula never had the chance to attack anyone in close combat because she was brought down by massive firepower of the Union. Heizinger really has a high MV but only had two chances to use it before - you guess it - he was brought down by massive firepower of the Union. Asteros himself can kill "normal" characters quickly, especially if he's supported by - okay, I won't repeat it.

Just to stay off topic: I tried the same teams I just mentioned again. Although the Reich lost again, the team did a bit better this time. Hoss and Heizinger killed Barry quickly, Heizinger using his Sha-na-na to good effect. Hoss managed to kill MacNeal later and a Shocktruppen killed Alpha. Furthermore, this time a Shocktruppen managed to roll 6 successes against Asteros, so Hoss could use his Reichdoktor ability. Asteros suffered 3 wounds, but again, the Reich was unable to damage him after that. Asteros easily killed a Shocktruppen and Heizinger while MacNeal killed Yula, who was again unable to get anything right, and the second Shocktruppen. In the end, Hoss was again cornered by the reintroduced Alpha and Asteros, who killed him with his Axe.

Hmmm, ****. I was hoping that it would go better than that. That's why when we play we make it that Asteros' team cannot use bonus tokens.

Oh well, I've never seen Asteros w/ stamina pack ever take even a single wound- so I dub this operation a smashing success!

I've been trying to think up ways for all the factions to take him on. Matriarchy seems the easiest. Zorka w/ stamina pack and given the electric truncheon and lots of healers. Was trying to think up Union as well.

I can't think of anything that stands out for Union. Obviously MacNeal and Barry and as many stat buffers and CP as you can muster. Also, I was thinking Tala. Not for her grenade, but for her extra ammunition. Give the extra ammunition to MacNeal or Barry and then she also has her grenade, and a smoke grenade I believe. Does this mean 2 troopers alpha? Max out firepower and smoke grenades with Tala buffering and getting CP from crates?

Great news! The Reich managed to kill Asteros! I used a modified “Anti-Asteros-Team” including Heizinger (Combat pack with Eye of Horus instead of pistol), Hoss (Command pack), Karl Zermann (Command pack with Countess Bathory instead of rank) and two Shocktruppen (Command pack). In short, Yula was replaced by Karl. Asteros’ team included Asteros (Stamina pack), MacNeal (Combat pack with Call in the troops instead of medal), Barry (Stamina pack) and Alpha (Command pack with X5 Stabilizer instead of Keep moving).
The tactics of both teams hadn’t changed much: The Reich characters stayed together and used Out-of-path-attacks and Shocktruppen’s overwatch attacks, the Union tried to move in in full force and kill everybody. For the first time, this didn’t work at all.
Summary of the game: Reich characters stayed on one path, Shocks on Overwatch, Hoss and Karl making Out-of-path attacks (Karl rolls 6 dice while staying near Heizinger). MacNeal was wounded by a Shock but healed back with Barry’s medkit before Barry was killed by Hoss and Karl (Should have kept the kit for himself). Alpha was killed by a Shock but managed to wound Heizinger twice. The fun really started when Asteros, who was moving into attack position, was attacked by Hoss. Hoss rolled 5 successes while Asteros rolled only 2 – even after rerolling one die! Asteros fled from the battle, his only chance to recover was finding a medkit in a crate. He searched ONE crate nearby, only to find – a medkit! The Reich charged after him to kill him before he could use the kit, but he rolled enough successes to avoid any wounds. Furthermore, MacNeal and the reintroduced Alpha provided cover, although they didn’t actually wound a character. Asteros healed himself and stormed back into the battle, eager to actually kill a character, but he was stopped dead by Karl rolling 6 successes in his attack roll. Hoss added two successes with his Reichdoctor, bringing Asteros to his last row. Heizinger also entered the battle, using his skull against Asteros and actually killing him. Let me repeat it: Heizinger killed Asteros with Sha-na-na!
This ended the game more or less. MacNeal killed Karl on the following turn, but he and Alpha were no match for the remaining two Shocks, Hoss and Heizinger. The Reich cornered and killed both Union characters without suffering any more losses. It was really a glorious win for the Reich, although a very lucky one.

Congratulations! Hooray to the Reich!

How did the Union bring on a reinforcement? I'm pretty sure there is a one point penalty in CP every turn when Asteros is still on the board (representing the energies the team is expending to keep him under control)

One of the times Asteros was brought down in my games was when Hound Dog scored 5 wounds while A only managed to roll on shock 1,1,1,2,2 after two rerolls! As I said before, dice can sometimes make fools of us all

-Nhoj

Nhoj said:

MacNeal had the "Call in the troops" Bonus token equipped to introduce a reinforcement. And one of my rolls was almost as bad as yours: Afer Hoss rolled 5 successes, Asteros' shock roll was 0,9,2,2,2 after the reroll.

Ah - that explains everything

-Nhoj