So, I recently bought Descent , inside the gigantic box was an advertisement for Tannhauser which I think looks pretty rad, and I have been wanting to pick it up but I see on the listing for it it has being reprinted, but it also says updated, what is being updated in the box? I was going to buy it at my local shop but I don't want to miss out of anything big.

Thanks for the help!

As long as it has the big red "Includes Revised Rules" sticker on the box it shoud be up to date, no major changes are slated for the core game that I know of.

Thanks man! What expansions would you recommend for a new player?

It's really going to depend on how you play, and what faction you like best.

But I would definatly reccomend picking up Gorgei and Wolf, as mercs you'll have the most play out of them eraly on. Then I would say Daedalus is a good next step.

It's a good idea to hold off on the the cost of Novgorod till you get a feel for how much play time you'll be giving Tannhasuer.

If you get addicted like me, you'll be buying all the expansions any way.

One last note stay away from the Epic Characters at first, they can really thow off the balence, and new players won't have much fun being pounded in to the dirt in a couple turns.

If you somehow wind up with an original version, the revised rule book can also be bought as there doesn't seem to be any differences in pieces/content.

Miah999 said:

I disagree. I find Epic characters (character, youknowwho, to be exact) very useful for new players. When you've played the game for so long and know all the tactics, you pound any new player into the dirt. I always toss (if they haven't already chosen) Asteros to new players, it evens up the playing field and makes the game much more enjoyable.

GrandClam said:

Asteros is an easier Epic character to use, he's basically a tank. Zor'ka on the other hand is most effective when backed up properly. However that would also mean that I would consider Zor'ka the more lenient epic hero when against a novice.

Now I'm just wondering how Natalya will play (Why does the Matriarchy get two epic heroes? I suppose it would make Oksana more desirable to use instead of Zor'ka).

Zor´ka has been an epic char in the old rules, but not any more. Or am I mistaken? There is no clue in the new rulebook that indicates this characteristic for her.

I don't play as Matriarchy much so that may be the case although the point is all the same.

I'll have a quick look at the revised rulebook.

Well I can't find anything so I would assume yes, you are correct. Like I said, not much of a Matriarchy player although that does compensate for using Oksana.

Zorka is all funny like that because that's how the matriarchy plays. NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE ON HERE SAYS, the only way to field a matriarchy unit right now is including Zorka. It's because their faction is based on a Central powerful character backed up by crummy ones. Sure they could make another regular hero for the matriarchy, but they'd be just another less-than-impressive character to accompany Zorka. Have you ever looked at thier stats? Irina is useless is most respects, and gorgei is just a glorified shocktruppen.

The New Guard is a new affiliation that is a split in the matriarchy, playable as matriarchy or union. Right now the only model is Oksana and is only playable on the Union. Natalya is going to be a new epic character, filling the role of Zorka. Now you can choose to play matriarchy, with Zorka, or the New Guard with Oksana and Natalya.

Also, keep in mind that Natalya is New Guard. She is not just matriarchy, also 100% useable by union.

But yeah, anyway, that's just how the Matriarchy plays- with a central character. Just like how Reich are tricky and all-around, Union are all about the items, and Shogunate are close clombat.

I think GrandClam is right on everything except Irina. I admit she isn't a really powerful character, but her liturgies make other characters stronger - okay, they effectively make Zor'ka stronger. With Irina, you can choose wheter you want to raise Zor'ka's combat, stamina or movement value. Furthermore, her tokens allow you to introduce a reinforcement and even introduce her again if she dies, effectively giving you more characters than your opponent has. On the other han, attacking a healthy character with Irina really doesn't make sense unless she took a useful weapon from a crate. Maybe attacking a wounded or weak character that Zor'ka doesn't want to chase down is okay.

In my opinion, Irina is pure support. She makes Zor'ka stronger, can introduce new Voivodes as reinforcements if Zor'ka needs them, can accomlish objectives or search crates while Zor'ka fights, and she can be sacrificed if the situation calls for it because she enters play again.

Irina is great as a supporter. She excels in this role. Everything should be fine as long as she refuses to participate in real combat. Irina´s low stats are not so important as she has not to rely upon them to serve her purpose. Plus, Irishka is not crummy at all. One should recognize her worth as a supporter which revives voivods (which are important for Matriarchy, as they can keep Zor´ka alive and act as her "ranged combat arms") and repairs Zor´ka. Additionaly, she has the best damage-output in the Matriarchy, as she can roll 6 die for melee. All other characters normally get 4 die. I believe that Iriska and Irina have important roles for the Russian tactics, and are not useless at all.Without them Zor´ka would be not as effective as she is today.

Besides I do not understand why Gorgei should be useless. In reality, he compensates weaknesses of the Russian basic team:

- he can use grenades (the only one in the Russian team)

- he has a med-pac (the only Matriarchy character so far)

- he can improve initiative by 5 (a great modifier, which the Russian teamnormally lacks)

- he has an automatic weapon, which gives him 5 die (6 with combat pack!), instead of the regular 4 die all other Russians use.

I rather find him quite useful.

Wow this has gone way off topic, but it's a good discussion.

I think the problem most people have with the Matriarchy (myself included) is they find it hard to adapt to the squad consisting of "one heavy weapon" and then a team to support it. I mean, in the Union for instance, virtually every character can do significant damage on their own, every turn. Where as with the Matriarchy many of your characters may not even attack on every turn. It is just so radaclly different then what most players think a Tannhauser squad should play like it throws them off, and instead of blaming their tactics, or play style, they blame the team compisition itself.

But this is what makes Tannhauser great, that ability to find a team and equipment combo that suits you, and may not even be playable by someone else.

In the end if the Matriarchy doesn't work for you there are three more factions and two alliances to chose from.

I think they have kind of written themselves into a corner with the way they created the Matriarchy faction. One very powerful character, and since the rules simply state that you must have 3 heroes and 2 troopers, it would be very unbalanced to have Zor'ka and two other powerful heroes. The people who can accompany her need to effectively be nerfed since there is no point value or penalty like with Asteros to compensate for her strength.

But let's get to the real reason the Matriarchy packs no punch...they are all women! Of course they're weak and inferior! Let's be honest here...

vengeance000 said:

Are you serious about that stuff? Do you really think this way or is this just a poor joke? Oh, boy...

vengeance000 said:

Let's just suppose the last paragraph is a joke, okay?!

Maybe they really have "written themselves into a corner" with the Matriarchy the way vengeance000 states. Zor'ka plus support is very powerful, but Zor'ka plus other powerful characters would be almost unbeatable. So every matriarchy character introduced has to be weak and / or only supporting Zor'ka. This is probably the reason why they created the New Guard. They now are able to introduce new, powerful Matriarchy characters that are not playable with Zor'ka so the players can play a different Matriarchy team if they don't want to rely on Zor'ka alone. I think soon you will be able to play Zor'ka plus support or a mix of equally strong characters if playing Matriarchy. Then Gorgei will find his place in a team too. For now, I really think he's a good character but I never use him in a Matriarchy team because Irina and Irishka are better for supporting Zor'ka. Maybe Gorgei should join the New Guard?

Let's not forget the UMTOMA which will ally the Union with the Matriarchy can you imagine a Barry and Zor'ka combo with Irishka and Voivodes to support.

I wonder if the alliance rules will add affilation symbols to one side. If not, Irina will be of no use at all for allied Union-matriarchy- teams, as her liturgies only support matriarchy troops. Irina backing up Barry´s and John´salread impressive attack power could have devestating results.

And this would be the same for the Reich and the Shogunate - Heizingers "Hermeticas" would be of no use for the Shogunate. But I think that FFG will rule that union and matriarchy shares the same affilliation symbol as does reich and shogunate.

Katsuyori said:

Just a poor joke, of course. :-)

I'm not disagreeing with the central character thing, I'm just saying the normal matriarchy characters suck- you can't argue with that. I don't care that they're good supporters, that's their purpose, but one on one CHARACTER-wise matriarchy characters suck.

1 v 1 Irishka is never going to beat Ramirez

1 v 1 gorgei is going to have quite a difficult time even beating Barry, and Barry is slighted more for fighting multiple people

1 v 1 Irina v Heizinger would just be embarrassing v Tala would be better but she's still going to lose every time (actually, I don't remember Irina's mental stat- might be worse)

Oksana is one of my fav characters but without her voivodes she is absolute garbage (yes, I know that is the point of her character and the voivodes under her command). I'm just saying, they suck for an absolute reason- but they still suck. If you are hiring a mercenary, have one open hero spot, and want your team to perform the best that it absolutely positively can, are you going to hire Gorgei or Wolf?

1 v 1 Wolf beats gorgei, every time- I gaurantee it.

Seriously tho, don't get me wrong- matriarchy is my favorite. My play team is MacNeal, Oksana, trooper Alpha or Delta (depending on opponents), and Gorgei. You know why Gorgei is included? I mostly play people who are much more inexperienced than me and it keeps me from absolutely destroying them with Barry, Ramirez, or Hoax.

.................

That and he's my absolute favorite character and having a Union/New Guard/Phantom Division squad just seems badass and I like the variety of the models while they still match kinda sorta. (Don't think I'm going to dig mixing the new anime characters w/ the badass Reich ones.. 'cept for Itami- the only reason I will ever consider purchasing the Shogunate)

Katsuyori- I hear ya, when playing loyalist Matriarchy I take Gorgei instead of Irina half the time. Irina makes Zorka stronger and gives you alot of models, but gorgei's firepower combined with Zorka and Irishka is just... phew. Seriously tho, if you ever wanted to be a **** and use Wolf instead of Gorgei- are you telling me that Wolf would be no better than gorgei? Not trying to sound like an ass even tho I am, just trying to point out the character differences.

oh yes! and while we're off-topic and whatnot, I have a question for house rules. When a decent player is using Asteros, that team is unable to select bonus tokens. And if a player is better or using his stamina pack, he has -2CP?

GrandClam said:

No, I am not telling anything like that. I am just saying that he is different that WOlf and has his own strong points, depending on the circumstances.

Katsuyori said:

okay okay okay. I admit he has the capability to be more damaging than Wolf in a straight up attack, but not on overwatch. If they made a way to up Gorgei's dice roll further or give him rerolls, he would be insane. Actually, isn't Iroh's commander ability going to affect any friendly hero? I made a custom character for a "Nika Volkova". When played with Gorgei and using a certain pack and one of them is killed, the other gets +1 dice for the rest of the game.

GrandClam said:

You can give Gorgei rerolls the "X5-NR Stabiizer" allows you to reroll you two lowest dice when attacking with an Automatic weapon.

The "X5" bonus token is included in the Oksana Figure Pack.